Rick Green

Welcome to the Intersection of Faith and Culture. Thanks for joining us today. I'm Rick Green, America's Constitution Coach, here with David and Tim Barton. We appreciate you joining us. We're at the Intersection of Faith and Culture because it's the place where we have our faith influence. The culture and every topic we talk about is from that biblical, historical and constitutional perspective, because you need those foundational truths and you need those guideposts, if you will, to have a good culture and a good society, and so we're thankful that you're here with us to be a part of that.

And one person in this system can make a difference. I think we've seen that with David Barton, we've seen it with Glenn Beck, we've seen it with Donald Trump, we've seen it with people that are willing to step forward. And you don't have to be a president or a radio host or start a big ministry. You just got to stand up for truth wherever you are. You got to rebuild the wall where you are so you can be that person that makes a difference in your town, in your community or maybe even your whole state, but, most importantly, in your home, right there with your kids and grandkids, teaching them truth, so that the most important thing you'll ever do is make sure that your family is a good small political unit. If you will, if you really want to impact America, impact your family in a positive way. It's not near as important what's happening in the State House or the White House as what's happening in your house.

It's vitally important for us to recognize that we can complain about Washington DC, complain about our state legislatures all day long. Let's make sure we're doing our part and I'm preaching to myself here, listen. I need to do more in my local community. I need to do more with my family, and every single one of us can do more, and now is the time to do that.

Lives, fortune, sacred honor and now is the time to step up and give more of our time that's our life more of our money to good causes, our fortune and then our reputation, our willingness to speak truth and let the chips fall where they may. That's what we do here at Wall Builders and we're thankful that you're here with us as a part of this effort to influence culture with our faith. All right, David and Tim. Our friend Josh Brecheen will be with us, congressman from Oklahoma, in a few minutes, and of course, we've had him on a couple of times already and I think he's just what first term, maybe second term. But he goes in with a lot of wisdom and just good old biblical common sense and we're going to be talking to him about the Israeli situation.

David Barton

Yeah, this is his first term. Tim and I have known him for a while as a state legislator. We were just with him a week or so ago in Washington DC in the midst of some really kind of momentous stuff happening up there as well. But Josh is a guy that really does have a biblical worldview, and I was thinking in terms of even biblical worldview, and Tim and I are going to be speaking to some young people throughout the coming week, and one of the things I was reflecting back on was there really didn't used to be what we now call the secular progressive viewpoint, which just completely excludes the Bible to the point that your preferred position is exactly the opposite of what the Bible says. And I was thinking when did that kind of come in? Yeah, we took prayer out of schools in 62, 63, and we did Roe v Wade 73. And so we've been doing that, and I think I could probably safely say that if you have been to school in America in the 1980s or beyond so that's now two, two and a half generations you probably don't have a clue what a biblical worldview looks like when it comes to public policy or when it comes to even people in office, because we just haven't talked about that much. We talk about getting Christians in office, but not the worldview so much.

And it seems that there's a few really good indicators of whether someone has a biblical worldview or even whether, as a Christian, they have adopted a secular, progressive worldview. And I say that trying to be careful of what I say. But if you profess to be a Christian and you take the position that unborn life is not sacred and not from God not to be predicted, you are a Christian thinking like a secular progressive. If you are a Christian and you think there's more than two genders of male and female, you may be a professing Christian, but you're not biblically oriented, you are a secular progressive. And Israel is one of those very few dividing lines that really does draw a line when you fall on the scale of supporting or opposing Israel is one of the best indicators of whether someone has a biblical worldview.

Now, a lot of people on the other side say well, Israel does bad stuff. Well, you know what? That's true. They're human and they do bad stuff, like everybody does. But that does not change the fact that God singled them out despite the fact that they weren't perfect, and he put a special blessing on them. That's His choice, that's His prerogative. We can't talk him out of that. That's what he did, and if you don't recognize that, then you don't recognize what the Bible says and teaches and you're not respecting what God has said.

And so now, in a culture where we have so much of the nation, so many professing, you know, Biden continues to say he's a devout Catholic, he's a professing Christian. Maybe so, but he's not got it right on Israel, and so there's nothing biblical that would indicate there. And we would say the same thing for his positions on gender, the positions on unborn life, et cetera. And this is a dichotomy that really America has not had to face before, because even when we had people that weren't Christians, they still pretty much held to a biblical worldview, whether it was a Benjamin Franklin kind of person or Thomas Jefferson kind of person or whatever. And this is a new stage for us. So what Josh is going to talk about, the position of Israel, is something that is really showing up in Congress in a polarized way we haven't seen in our lifetime.

Rick Green

Yeah, and David, I was thinking, even before we go to Congress, is that even voters are not voting biblically, right? So even if you just have a voter registration drive at a church and you just turn out the church, as you and Barna point out, all the time they vote like the world. So there's a lack of biblical worldview just in the church generally. So, especially even if you elect someone out of your church, too often they don't have a biblical worldview and so they go and they end up voting in the legislature or in Congress much like the rest of the world. So this restoration of biblical worldview is across the board for the whole country, but we see it very distinctly in Congress because these votes are so polarized.

Tim Barton

Well, guys, I would say too that, even in the midst of saying, recognizing, acknowledging what should be an obvious truth connected to the Bible, support of Israel, biblical worldview and, dad, as you mentioned, this isn't saying they're perfect but also that, outside of the Bible, like just for a minute, if we didn't have the knowledge of the Bible, where Israel is called the apple of God's eye, where God gives us covenant with Abraham, the Abrahamic covenant, where God says that I will make you a great nation, I will bless you as I bless you and curse you as I curse you. We're told to pray for the peace of Jerusalem. Like, let's say, all that was gone right, even I think it's Romans 11 that we're grafted in, that Israel is the root that Christians we are grafted branches into that tree. Let's leave all that aside for a second. It's also ludicrous when you look at the nations around them and the standards of oppression and tyranny, the enslavement that's happening around them in the Middle East, in Africa, and pretending like that people are using an objective standard of measurement, saying Israel is a bad nation. If you go to the Muslim, the major Muslim nations right, the irony. Do you see these? LGBTQIA plus? Right, whatever the pride flag, the pride parade that's standing up for Hamas, standing up for Gaza? Right, because they're like Israel, is the bad one. But the irony is that in Israel, although we disagree with it as a public policy position, in Israel they fully support and allow and tolerate and fully might be an overstatement, because there's probably not everybody that does but homosexuality is allowed. It's illegal, it's tolerated in Israel. It's not in these Muslim nations that they're supporting.

And what's so ironic in the midst of the people that are wanting to condemn Israel for the way they're treating Hamas right, or even saying what they're doing to Gaza, it?

It is an uneven scale that they are using to measure, because anytime they see Israel do something that can be portrayed in a negative light, they're going to sell it as a negative light and they don't look at the other side with any kind of just measurement.

The idea that America has sent so much aid, effort and relief into Gaza right, biden's spent millions upon millions, upon millions and millions. I think we've sent billions of dollars of aid over to Gaza and there's reports running that the people of Gaza have not been able to get that food, to get those resources. Why? Because the leaders, hamas, those in charge have been intercepting and have not been allowing it to get to everywhere it needs to go. And yet somehow Israel's being blamed for this because we're not looking at it objectively, seeing what's happened and pretending like Israel's the bad guy, when they're the only ones that, even though they tend to be socialists, they are more of a democratic kind of nation. They are a democracy in the sense that they allow people to vote, as opposed to and many of these other nations that are Islamic nations that have a very different ideology.

David Barton

And just to add to that, Tim Biden recently bragged about the fact and Blinken did that they have sent 1.2 billion to Hamas. So yeah, they've sent a sizable chunk to Hamas, no question.

Rick Green

Well and we, you know we talked about this back when October 7th first happened that we would hear rhetoric from Biden and Blinken acting like they're supporting Israel and they would play the game, but they would be undermining Israel behind the scenes. And, you know, I think Josh is going to give us a chance to see a little bit behind the scenes in Congress as well. So, josh Breecheen, our special guest, stay with us folks, we'll be right back on the WallBuilder Show.

Break

Rick Green

Welcome back to WallBuilders. Thanks for staying with us, Congressman Josh Breecheen. Back with us, Josh. Thanks for coming on, brother Hi.

Josh Breecheen

Hi I'm tickled to be with you. As you know, huge fan of Wall Builders.

Rick Green

Well, we're a fan of yours as well. You do a great job. Mutual admiration society here. No, we are seriously proud of you, man, and thank you for being a bold leader of courage and standing firm. You know not often found in DC, so we're glad you're there. A lot of tough issues lately and you've been willing to take a stand for Israel despite the administration putting pressure on Israel in the wrong way, and just wanted to get your thoughts on that.

Josh Breecheen

I just think it's astounding that we even you know that America even has questions about whether or not we're going to stand with them and push back the fact that Netanyahu has been persecuted by this UN ideology. It's amazing. He is a leader trying to defend a country that was attacked and you've got a pro-Hamas narrative coming out of the United Nations and we -my hope is we'll have a change of the executive post-November and that we can start not speaking out both sides of our mouth, as the current administration is doing right now, saying today we're with Israel but we're kind of with Hamas. I mean, it's just, it's that double speak that continues to increase the opportunity for students to stand on these campuses chanting river to the sea.

Rick Green

Yeah, and it's when you actually watch the videos from October 7th and you see the evil that was perpetrated, you realize what you're dealing with, and I think you know too many people. They've either never seen any of the videos or they don't have a clue what's going on. Most of these kids on the college campuses have no idea. They've had this poison poured into their minds on the college campus. And for the administration to feed all of the nonsense and the narrative from the terrorist is, of course, shameful. How you know what are the numbers like in Congress right now on supporting Israel?

Josh Breecheen

Well, I think that you know you do have the 30 or 40 Democrats that are of the pro-Palestinian persuasion, which I would say is very much pro-Hamas, and then I think you've got some more Democrats who either in their heart, believe in supporting Israel or, by the politics, are still casting votes that seem symptomatic of supporting Israel. So ultimately it's going to. The Jewish community in America is going to have to start demanding more of the representatives who say we support you and ask for solidarity.

Rick Green

Yeah it can't be what we see of this president, where you're trying to straddle the fence.

Rick Green

Yeah, and it has an effect not just in terms of aid and help from us, but it encourages the nations that are against Israel. When we back off or we're wishy-washy or we're not firm in our response and in our support, it gives them a foothold to gather more international support against Israel and for Hamas.

Josh Breecheen

Absolutely yeah. I mean, let your yes be yes and your no be no.

Rick Green

Yeah, yeah, no doubt. Why do you think it's so important for them to finish the job and actually, get this done and not do half measures here.

Josh Breecheen

Well, I had a couple of the reservists in my office a few months ago. I actually made time to introduce them to the speaker. They represent like 20,000 to 25,000 of the reservists, and one of the—he was the captain of the major—shared with me that he had led groups. You know, israeli troops cleared out the same location in Gaza four different times in his 20-year career.

It's a murderer in the shed. To quote my friend, Scott Perry, it's a murderer in the shed, to quote my, my friend, uh, Scott Perry, it's the murderer in the shed outside your home. And and if you know that you've got a murderer every night, that, uh, if you don't get every window and door locked up tight, it's going to find some way to get in the home, what would you tell that homeowner?

yeah, you would tell that homeowner to get rid of that building yeah, yeah, 

Rick Green

and I think, josh, the other thing that that most Americans you know, just Tell that homeowner to get rid of that building. Yeah, yeah, and I think, Josh, the other thing that most Americans just don't realize is how small the geography is there, how easy it is for Hamas to rebuild and be right back at the attacks, and especially with the support that they have from Iran and other nations. And so it's kind of hard to communicate to Americans because we're just so you know, we're so spoiled man, we got it so good here, we live in such good times for Americans compared to other people around the world, despite our border disaster and everything else, but it's hard for us to relate to what Israel goes through every single day.

Josh Breecheen

Yeah, yeah. National security to them means a whole lot more than what we've experienced.

Rick Green

Yeah, yeah, no doubt man, no doubt. Well, what can people at home do? I mean, obviously you've got a vote in Congress, you can join with your colleagues. What do you recommend that people at home do?

Josh Breecheen

Well, look, I actually, like you, believe in the power of prayer and I actually believe that prayer is not just job preparation, that it is the job. And you know this may shock you, but I've heard helicopters been bound. I look at that and I believe that God orchestrates the affairs of man and I think you pick a fight against a favored nation status. You better be leery. So I'm hoping for a total reset of governance. It's astounding that the Biden administration has sent condolences to the Iranian government. We are fighting and having to deploy million-dollar bombs to bring down drones, and yet we're sending them condolences. I mean again, let's do yes, be yes and you know, be no. Are we in a position of fighting or not?

Rick Green

Right right.

Josh Breecheen

And the right message is we hope that you see a path forward to elect somebody who actually is not crazy. I mean, you probably should wordsmith that a little better to be more diplomatic, but that would be the message I would send. No.

Rick Green

I don't think you weren't smithing any different brother.

Josh Breecheen

But look, it's that I believe like that's a quote from Benjamin Franklin. You know well that God governs the affairs of man, so Benjamin Franklin reminded the Constitutional Convention, if a sparrow doesn't fall to the ground without his notices, it probably will not be able to fly. The empire can rise without his aid, and so, for those of us that believe that the Lord's eye is on Jerusalem, his eye is on Israel, that we pray that that which is going on over there is under his orchestrated command.

Rick Green

Amen Amen.

Josh Breecheen

And that the angelic hosts are activated.

Yeah, amen, brother. Well, God bless you. Keep up the great work. Congressman, thank you for your time today. And, man, just let us know how we can pray for you as well, and we'll be lifting you up and just praying for you. Know God, to govern in the affairs of the United States as well?

Rick Green

Indeed.

Thank you, Rick, Stay with us folks.

Break

Rick Greeb

Welcome back to the WallBuilders show. Thanks for staying with us, thanks to Congressman Breecheen for joining us today. Back with David and Tim now and of course guys I mean politicians are going to dance the dance right. So I mean, Josh is basically revealing that there's a lot of stuff where a lot of people are dancing publicly as if they're supporting Israel, but then behind the scenes, the even anti-Semitism in our own Congress here in the US.

David Barton

Yeah, it was really disappointing to see how few Democrats voted to support Israel and how many of them voted to support Hamas. That's not a good sign. And again, it should not be that polarized over something like Israel, because not only is it biblical, it's just common sense. I mean, my goodness, look at Hamas. Who are the friends of Hamas? Well, you do have Iran, and you have the Houthi, the terrorist out of Syria, and you've got the terrorist out of Lebanon, and it's supported by all these terrorist organizations. And you think that that's a good group to support? Just from a public policy standpoint. Even if you had no biblical knowledge at all, you would still say, hey, I like the people who are friends of Israel and I don't like the people who are friends of Hamas. And yet Democrats don't seem to be able to make that distinction. And that's where, when you become secular progressive, one thing you can see historically is you're not just gently against biblical values, you're aggressive against biblical values. That's why we see so much intolerance now. If you take a position for traditional marriage, you're a hater. No, you're not a hater. You're doing what's been supported for 5,800 years, but for them, they take that as a war. They declare war, things like that, and it's just interesting to see to what lengths they will go to support Hamas.

David Barton

As Josh made a comment, he was talking about those that were pro-Palestinian in the house and I'm not sure that you can separate pro-Palestinian from pro-Hamas. I don't know, for example, I don't know of anyone who is pro-Palestinian from pro-Hamas. For example, I don't know of anyone who is pro-Palestinian who is anti-Hamas. Now, HAMAS is the terrorist organization. The Palestinians, that's the people, but the terrorist organization is Hamas. And it's interesting that we've been in Israel a number of times and they have pointed out to us that in a lot of the Palestinian areas, when they have referendums on because Palestinians are represented in the Israeli legislature, they're just part of the Knesset they're there and when they're asked, do you want Israelis or do you want Palestinians to govern these Palestinian areas, the Palestinian people overwhelmingly are choosing Israel because the corruption is not there, the money actually gets to the project it's supposed to, and so, even with the Palestinians, they're pretty astute in the sense that they know that Hamas is not necessarily their friend when it comes to governance. 

Tim Barton

Well, guys, right now too.

I think one of the big challenges that we are seeing is there's a lot of people denying what happened on October 7th, and it's part of why Israel is getting blamed for what is happening. Even thinking that, as Hezbollah is firing more and more rockets at Israel, it seems like might be preparing to go on the offense against Hezbollah. There's no doubt, if Israel and when Israel does that, there's going to be people saying look how bad Israel is and they're going to forget about the thousands and thousands and thousands of rockets that Hezbollah has fired in. Well, it's the same thing with Gaza. People aren't paying attention to what's been going on or what Gaza did. They have a short-term memory. It reminds me a little bit of when Eisenhower was leading the troops in World War II and they come up on one of the death camps, the Holocaust camps, where Jews were being exterminated, and Eisenhower says wait a second, bring in the photographers. We have to make sure we capture this. People aren't going to believe it, and one of the things that he knew even back then is there will be some people that say this never happened. There'll be people that will deny what went on and we need a document to show. It's there, and I think even part of the disdain that people have for Israel has led them to start rejecting and denying the reality of what happened on October 7th.

And, dad, as Josh was talking, it reminded me a little bit of something that you were pointing out before we got to the interview in the first segment about people not having a biblical worldview. And so you know, you can love Jesus but be wrong on these issues, and I thought that is one of those very, very fine lines. I don't want to get into a depth of theology, but it reminded me of Matthew 7, where Jesus said that not everyone who says Lord, lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of the Father. And then he goes on to say many will come to me that day and say Lord, we knew you, we prophesied in your name, we cast out demons. It's all these wonders in your name, he said, and I'll tell them to depart from me. I never knew you.

Tim Barton

And it's interesting, this balance, that can you love Jesus and not follow his teachings?

Can you love Jesus and not do what he says? And I think this is one of the challenges that there's a lot of churches that are emphasizing and really prioritizing the number one goal is to introduce people to Jesus, which is not necessarily a bad goal, but if that becomes the finish line instead of the starting blocks, if we don't focus on discipleship and teaching people to live like Jesus and think like Jesus, to think biblically, not culturally right, where we're told that we're not supposed to be conformed to the pattern of this world, be transformed by the reading of our mind, if we're not thinking biblically, then I don't know exactly who that Matthew 7 group is that say Lord, lord, but don't enter the kingdom of heaven. I just know I want to stay as far away from it as I can, and certainly understanding, thinking and living biblically is what we want to do as Christians, and Israel is a great example, making sure we are taking the right stand according to what the Bible teaches on Israel.

Rick Green

But, Tim, I thought the Great Commission was to go and make disciples of all nations, teaching them to obey everything I commanded you, except things that were controversial or potentially political.

Tim Barton

Well, it does seem like a lot of pastors have read it that way, but I don't think that's what they said. You keep using that phrase. I don't think it means what you think it means.

Rick Green

I just wanted to clarify because it sure seems like that's what it says, according to a lot of those pastors. No, you're so spot on man. Living all of it out in the program Israel is almost a good litmus test for really being able to determine if these legislators or elected officials public servants. Are they actually at least attempting to govern from a biblical worldview? Great interview today. Thanks to Congressman Josh Breecheen for joining us today. You can get all of our programs at wallbuilders.show. We sure appreciate you listening to the WallBuilder Show.