Unlock the secrets to navigating religious liberty in the classroom. We reveal how educators can confidently express their faith within the boundaries of the law. Their insights, alongside an inspiring tale of a teacher who courageously displayed the Ten Commandments, will embolden you to foster a community that truly values historical and religious foundations. Prepare to be equipped like never before, as we also announce our highly-anticipated summer conference for educators, brimming with practical strategies and historical wisdom for teachers eager to enrich their curriculums with biblical truth.
The tides are turning in America's legal landscape, and with the expertise of Kelly Shackelford, we dissect monumental Supreme Court victories that are reshaping our religious freedoms. Delving into the pivotal Coach Kennedy case, we unravel how voluntary faith expression is gaining ground over old arguments of coercion. It's a thrilling era where historic crosses and the Ten Commandments are reclaiming their place in public spaces, and we're here to guide you through these transformative shifts.
We call upon pastors and community leaders to unite and lead this cultural renaissance. The role of the church has never been more vital in sculpting a society anchored by values and faith. We leave you with a rallying cry to support church leaders in their quest to engage, inspire, and ignite a cultural revolution. This episode isn't just a conversation; it's a call to action for all who believe in the power of religious liberty and its enduring impact on our nation.
Welcome to Wall Builders, got a great program for you today. Appreciate you joining us. I'm Rick Green, America's Constitution Coach, and I'm here with David Barton and Tim Barton. David is America's premier historian and our founder at Builders. Tim Barton, of course, national speaker and pastor and president of Wall Builders. You can learn more about all of us at WallBuilders. com. Hi, David and Tim. Our friend Kelly Shackleford's going to join us a little later. I was just talking to a group. Where was I? I think it was in Utah. Anyway, I was at some event and we were talking about Constitutional principles, Constitutional freedoms, all the challenges in the courts, and we were talking about the fact that we have more religious liberty than we've really ever had in our lifetime at least. We've been at this battle for a very, very long time and thankfully, Kelly Shackleford's been at the front of that. You know multiple cases before the Supreme Court. But we asked Kelly to come on later in the program because we've got a great question from the audience about this very issue. So here's the email, guys, this is what we got. Let's chat about it a little bit and then we'll get Kelly on a little later. It's from an actual teacher that was listening to our program. I thought this was really cool. The teacher said I've caused quite a stir in my community after attending the WallBuilder's Teacher's Conference. Actually, not listening to the program, going to the conference in the summer, she said I put the Ten Commandments in my classroom, the national motto in the hall, and I told my church we have more religious freedom than we've had in 75 years. Many were excited and have been telling all the teachers they know that they could put the Ten Commandments in their classrooms. The teachers don't believe them. Could you please do an episode that we can send to our teachers explaining what they can and can't do in the classroom? We could then send it to them and get good morals and true history which doesn't leave God out. Get that back into our schools! People are willing to do what they can as long as they know they are operating within the law. Please help us! And there's quite a few exclamation points there, guys. She said you know what? What a sexist statement. I don't know if it's a girl or a guy. The teacher said it's a public school, it's K through 12. It's actually in out in the Ozarks. It's in Missouri, so you would think it wouldn't have gotten that bad in those areas. I've been trying to tell people it's in the best communities. The schools are still bad there, but this is just really cool. So she came to our conference in the summer. Tim are we doing that? I'm assuming we're doing that again this summer so teachers that hear this today could actually come in and get hands-on training, not just hear the advice from Kelly Shackleford here in a few minutes.Tim Barton:
They certainly can, and actually they might hear the advice from Kelly Shackleford this summer too, because we usually have one of our friends from First Liberty come over and give a brief for the teachers on what the current position of the law is, the current interpretation, so they know really where they have the freedom of flexibility. Of course, from the WallB uilder's side we might tell them, hey, Constitutionally, like here's what you can do, but then our friends at First Liberty will show up and say here's what, legally, you're protected to do and here's where we can help defend, represent you, guide you on these issues. But yes, we do this conference every summer. We do a couple every summer, and if people go to the WallBuilders website they can look for a teacher's conference, and I believe the signups are already there for this year. We will take applications in through, probably I don't know, March or April is when we'll give confirmation for teachers that come. We only take about 50 or 60 teachers per session and it's really because we want to be able to give them a really hands-on experience, as they are there and so there's a limited amount of people we can have in the museum at the time as we're handing things around and so this does fill up. We always have a huge waiting list every year. So please, if you want to come, sign up, get on there early. We do rank it a little bit and so if, for example, we've had college presidents and professors and superintendents and principals, and so for some of those people that have a higher position with further reach, we try to include them so that they can take that back and have influence on so many other etcetera. So there is a little bit of a waiting and rank system for people to come, but we do ultimately when everybody to be able to experience it at some point, we also do what's called a family seminar, which I think we'll probably even have links on our website. We do that in a partnership with the American Journey Experience over with Mercury One and my dad, Glenn Beck and I. It's a two-day seminar. That is a kind of big picture history from Columbus up until progressives took over in early America and changed so much of it. And so if people can't make the teachers conference and really for anybody listening, if you're not a teacher and you want to come, get some really incredible training, hands-on history from my dad, Glenn Beck, and myself being able to go into the vault and see the things you can sign up for the family seminar. So lots of information on the WallBuilders website about all these things.Rick Green:
Hey Tim, I got to say, man, I can't imagine for a teacher a better way to make their classes exciting and make that history come to life than if they've been to this, right, because there's something about holding those documents, being in the museum, getting to see these things here and from you guys firsthand. I was just telling a group last weekend I hated history in high school and college. I slept through that stuff. It wasn't until I heard David Barton speak, had a cassette tape they laughed because nobody has cassette tapes anymore and learned that stuff and heard that stuff that I started loving history. So for a teacher that's doing that every day throughout the year, I'm telling you you need to come do this. It will light your class up, you'll love it, it'll make you a better teacher. I promise you that.David Barton:
And one thing about it is the summer sessions, you do get equipped. I mean, that's part of the reason for this question, because this teacher was there and heard the attorneys and what happens is when you go back to your local school this is so radically new to them they say you can't do that. Or the school determines, oh, that's unconstitutional. Timeout. We were talking to the guy today that in the last two sessions the Supreme Court has won four cases at the US Supreme Court. I think that's going to be most local school board attorneys that maybe have a local practice and Kelly is a Constitutional attorney, and so this is where they get the information in the summer and they go back and they start applying it and you get the pushback that we're seeing right here. And this is a great time to have Kelly on to say, hey, here's what you CAN do. And so the emphasis of this is hey, we have doors open to us that have not been open in our lifetime, but that will not change a single thing unless somebody walks through that door and starts making a difference on the other side, which the teacher did. So we need to find out from Kelly, okay, what she's talking about, but the 10 Commandments up, but in God We Trust backup a couple. She getting pushed back. Where is the courts on this? What can be done? And so great question for Kelly. It's going to be a great answer and once we get that answer I'm going to encourage everybody to be really aggressive with it. Go to your own local school board. If your teacher has (inaudible) and heard Kelly and been trained on this stuff, you need to take this and get active in your school to start pushing back on this kind of stuff.Rick Green:
Kelly Chakrapher from First Liberty will be with us. Quick break, we'll be right back. You're listening to the WallBuilders Show.David Barton:
This is David Barton, with another moment from America's history. Joseph Story is one of the most important names in American jurisprudence. Not only was he placed on the US Supreme Court by President James Madison, but he also founded Harvard Law School and authored numerous legal works on the Constitution. While today's revisionists claim that the goal of the First Amendment was absolute religious justice, Joseph Story vehemently disagreed, he declared the real object of the First Amendment was not to encourage, much less to advance, Mohammedanism or Judaism or infidelity by prostrating Christianity, but was to exclude all rivalry among Christian denominations. According to founder Joseph Story, Christianity, not pluralism, was the goal of the founding fathers in the First Amendment, for only a Christian nation as tolerant and thus as truly pluralistic. For more information on God's hand in American history, contact WallBuilders at 1-800-8-REBUILD.Rick Green:
Welcome back to WallBuilders. Thanks for staying with us. Always great to have Kelly with us. Well, you guys at First Liberty, I tell you what you are restoring liberty, not just defending it, but restoring liberty in the country. You have the biggest religious liberty case, probably my lifetime, with Coach Kennedy. So many other cases as well. Our listeners are asking you know, what can we do now that we have more religious liberty than we've had in so long and even had some questions about Ten Commandments? Had some teachers actually had taken our program and got excited, put the Ten Commandments up on the wall in their school. They're getting some pushbacks. They said, hey, let's get Kelly to just kind of give us a little update and see if you're seeing pushback around the country as well.Kelly Shackleford:
The problem is most people have no idea that the law has changed, that these major decisions have come down. And so you know, when you've been trained for 50 years, that you know you can't do something, you can't have an activity scene before Christmas on the county lawn, you know you can't have prayer before, you know, an athletic event, you can't do all these different things. Then you think that's the way it is. But that was all based upon one case that was wrong. That's now been completely reversed and so you can do all these things. You know everywhere that a cross went down. The cross can come back up. The Ten Commandments that were rolled in the closet, they come back out. And one of those rulings at the Supreme Court that was based upon this wrong case was out of Kentucky and they said you know, they had Ten Commandments in every classroom and they took it out. Well, that's no longer good anymore, that ruling isn't. So, there's all kinds of things that people can do. That you know, this hostility to religion approach that was never what the Constitution says is over. It's just now up to people to sort of take their communities back and to have an nativity scene at Christmas and maybe you know a Menorah for Hanukkah and these things. It's time to bring these things back, but that depends upon people doing it.Rick Green:
Yeah, yeah. It's almost like a reversal of 50 years ago, when the ACLU would fly around the country and threaten schools and and make them stop doing these things. Now We've got to be the ones flying around saying, hey, the Supreme Court's supporting you now and the Constitution's always supported you and you know, live your freedom. So there's really an education process that's gonna take place as a teacher does something like this and they get pushed back. What's the best way for them to respond? Is there, you know- should they send people to first liberty. org? Is there a particular article or our video you guys have made that would help them to use in their local community?Kelly Shackleford:
We've got a lot, but I'd say the first place they might want to go is we put up a website in particular just for this whole issue of things changing. It's called restoring faith in America.Rick Green:
Oh, that's right.Kelly Shackleford:
RFIA. org, (RF restoring faith in America), RF IA..org. And it tells people here's what just happened, you can do all these things now. It gives examples, but you know, Rick, really there's endless examples of what people can do. I mean, for instance, one that we didn't even think of but people immediately saw after our case they could do is the state of Texas passed a new law that says you can have a chaplain in all the public schools, and so, you know, there's just endless examples of what people can do. But certainly the simple things are are like, you know, having a display, that that is, you know, a religious display, is okay. We're not 'anti- religious display' in this country. And this idea that we can't, you know, have a Christmas celebration, a Hanukkah celebration, these things, that that's over. And this idea that schools somehow is a Religion-free zone. Yes, we don't want the government to ever use its power to coerce anyone, to force them, you know? But that's that's what it was about. It was the establishment causes, about not establishing a national church and forcing people to support it. It wasn't about shutting down religious expression by people, which violates the First Amendment.Rick Green:
And wasn't that a big, you know, real turning point with the Kennedy case was that the left had set for 50 years If you express your faith, that IS coercion, because someone else might feel compelled to do it. And and this was basically saying that's ridiculous. You know, people make their own decisions. Having some watching someone else live out their faith should not be intimidating in a free country.Kelly Shackleford:
That's exactly right. Yeah, I mean, you know, somehow they don't have that problem when it comes to any of the bad things that are better being said you know, I mean, if you wanted to get up and talk about how you know you know it's okay to promote that somebody should question their sexuality, you know, you know that's, you know that's okay. But if some, if some coach across the field, you know, 300 feet away, is saying a prayer and you could see it, oh well, that might influence them. Well, you, know, what I mean, where people have a right to express their ideas, even if they're wrong and even if they're religious, and we don't, we don't censor people from expressing themselves because that expression is religious, and in fact, religious expression is, you know, right at the center of the founding of this country. So it's something that is really more protected In some ways than just free speech, because you got two Fundamental rights at play when it comes to free speech, and it's religious speech.Rick Green:
Amen. RFIA. org folks, RFIA. org Kelly, before I let you go, I mean this is you know, talk about this like 20 lifetime achievements here and getting this case itself and and and how big this turned things around. What are you looking at next? What's the next big battle for you and for First Liberty that you can tell people about?Kelly Shackleford:
Well, we've had four wins now in the Supreme Court the last two years and obviously the Kennedy case is huge, but so was the Groth case, which affects everybody's religious freedom in the workplace. So there's some great victories, but we now have to build on those. For instance, take Groth. Just because people now have a higher standard of protection, you've got to apply it, and so what that's going to, I think, now allow people to do it's going to protect people who are victims of DEI attacks in their workplace. We've got people who are fired because the DEI division the Diversity Equity and Inclusion Division said that they had bad beliefs. Well, you can't do that. And now we've got a high standard of protection after the Groth win last summer. So we're going to play these out. You know, people fired for using the wrong pronoun, and we've got four or five other cases right beneath the Supreme Court any of whom could go to the Supreme Court that are really across the board in all kinds of different religious liberty issues. So it's a great time to move forward now. We've got a good court on religious freedom and therefore we've got good precedent we're creating and it's sort of like, you know, let's make hay while the sun shines, because it's shining right now. God is doing something and opportunity is here, and so if people want to follow any of this, they can go to firstliberty. org and get involved, especially encourage them to get that weekly alert. They go down about a half page and they can sign up for the insider, and every Friday they'll get an alert on four or five major cases or something that's just happened that week on religious freedom. It's a great way for them to pray, to inform others and to just stay involved in the issue.Rick Green:
Firstliberty. org. Definitely get on that email list, folks. I also encourage you to donate. Kelly and his team go out and defend people for free and it's because of our support. So please go there and help, but for sure get on that email list. Kelly couldn't help but chuckle, as you described that. So diversity, equity, inclusion, in the left's mind is if you have bad beliefs, we need to get rid of them. that's very inclusive. That's unbelievable. Thank you, brother. Thank you for all that y'all are doing to bring sanity back to our country. Also want to encourage people to go to RFIA. org, especially if they're in the middle of fight, like this teacher that's in in the email for us. Kelly, God bless you, brother. Thanks so much for joining us today. Thank you, rick. Stay with us folks, we'll be right back with David and Tim Barton. Have you noticed the vacuum of leadership in America? We're looking around for leaders of principle to step up and too often, no one is there. God is raising up a generation of young leaders with a passion for impacting the world around them. They're crying out for the mentorship and leadership training they need. Patriot Academy was created to meet that need. Patriot Academy graduates now serve in state capitals around America, in the halls of Congress and business, in the film industry, in the pulpit, in every area of the culture. They're leading effectively and impacting the world around them. Patriot Academy is now expanding across the nation and now's your chance to experience this life-changing week that trains champions to change the world. Visit www. patriotacademy. com for dates and locations. Our core program is still for young leaders 16 to 25 years old, but we also now have a citizen track for adults. So visit the website today to learn more. Help us fill the void of leadership in America. Join us in training champions to change the world at www. patriot academy. com. We're back here on the WallBuilders Show Thanks for staying with us. That's Kelly Shackleford. Appreciate him joining us. David Tim, we're always talking about these great victories at the Supreme Court and I have to admit, when I was kind of thinking about that summer of love where we won all these cases the Bruen case on the Second Amendment, overturning Roe v Wade, this Kennedy case, all of this. In my mind, initially, when I kind of ranked those three or four big cases, I didn't have this one at the top, but now that I think about it, the Kennedy case and religious liberty really should be at the top, because now that teachers can do the things that we're talking about here, that's the heart of all of it, because if you get God back in the equation, people end up voting better, they end up thinking better, they end up living better. So really, what Kelly's saying is we now have a decision from the Supreme Court that gives teachers the ability to restore the education that will produce good citizens, instead of having this valueless, secular education that we've had for the last 50 years.David Barton:
And this is the kind of thing where that parents and grandparents and others; we really have to get aggressive on this. Don't expect the kids in school to go in and make a change in the school. That's not where the change comes from. It comes from outside of the kids themselves, it comes from the teachers, it comes from the parents. And well, I don't hahave i k i atter pan><span data-v-ddf6351a="" class="transcript-element" data-mindex="32" data-eindex="226" data-key="32226 1125. 023" style="font-size: 1. 125rem; color: rgb(55 ment fadingHighlightedWord" data-mindex="32" data-eindex="240" data-key="32240it1126. 861" style="font-size: 1. 125rem; color: rgb(55 65 81/var(--tw-text-opacity));">it</span><span data-v-ddf6351a="" class="transcript-element" data-mindex="32" data-eindex="241" data-v-ddf6351a="" class="transcript-element fadingHighlightedWord" data-mindex="32" data-eindex="254" data-key="32254training1128. 742" style="font-size: 1. 125rem; color: rgb(55 65 81/var(--tw-text-opacity));">training</span><span data-v-ddf6351a="" class="transcript-element" data-mindex="32" data-eindex="255" data-key="32255 1129. 063" style="font-size: 1. 125rem; color: rgb(55 65 81/var(--tw-text-opacity));"> </span><span data-v-ddf6351a="" class="transcript-element fadingHighlightedWord" data-mindex="32" data-eindex="256" ranscript-element" style="font-size: 1. 125rem; color: rgb(55 65 81/var(--tw-text-opacity));">of</span><span data-v-ddf6351a="" class="transcript-element" data-mindex="32" data-eindex="263" data-key="32263 1130. 026" style="font-size: 1. 125rem; color: rgb(55 65 81/var(--tw-text-opacity));"> </span><span data-v-ddf6351a="" class="transcript-element" data-mindex="32" data-eindex="264" data-key="32264leaders1130. 087" style="font-size: 1. 125rem; color: rgb(55 65 81/var(--tw-text-opacity));">leaders</span><span data-v-ddf6351a="" 32294 1133. 444" style="font-size: 1. 125rem; color: rgb(55 65 81/var(--tw-text-opacity));"> </span><span data-v-ddf6351a="" class="transcript-element fadingHighlightedWord" data-mindex="32" data-eindex="295" data-key="32295in1133. 484" style="font-size: 1. 125rem; color: rgb(55 65 81/var(--tw-text-opacity));">in</span><span data-v-ddf6351a="" class="transcript-element" data-mindex="32" data-eindex="296" data-key="32296 5 data-mindex="32" data-eindex="303" data-key="32303that1134. 441" style="font-size: 1. 125rem; color: rgb(55 65 81/var(--tw-text-opacity));">that</span><span data-v-ddf6351a="" class="transcript-element" data-mindex="32" data-eindex="304" data-key="32304 1134. 561" style="font-size: 1. 125rem; color: rgb(55 65 81/var(--tw-text-opacity));"> </span><span data-v-ddf6351a="" class="transcript-element fadingHighlightedWord" data-mindex="32" data-eindex="305" acity));"> </span><span data-v-ddf6351a="" class="transcript-element" data-mindex="32" data-eindex="318" data-key="32318man1136. 94" style="font-size: 1. 125rem; color: rgb(55 65 81/var(--tw-text-opacity));">man</span><span data-v-ddf6351a="" class="transcript-element fadingHighlightedWord" data-mindex="32" data-eindex="319" data-key="32319,1137. 221" style="font-size: ata-eindex="338" data-key="32338 1140. 324" style="font-size: 1. 125rem; color: rgb(55 65 81/var(--tw-text-opacity));"> key="32297the1133 5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; --tw-blur: ; --tw-brightness: ; --tw-contrast: ; --tw-grayscale: ; --tw-hue-rotate: ; --tw-invert: ; --tw-saturate: ; --tw-sepia: ; --tw-drop-shadow: ; --tw-backdrop-blur:--tw-backdrop-brightness: ; him to the back, our whole philosophy of government is totally different, and so that has to be something we work on. Bless the heart of this teacher for trying to be aggressive and go after that and getting pushed back. Well, kelly and these other guys are happy to help come to the aid. But every one of us needs to h doing that kind of push. There's a great, great Bible verse, the second king seven, verse three, where some guys are sitting around and looking at how bad it is that they've got this big war going on and there's a big famine. And they look at each other and say, hey, why sit we here till we die? We're not doing nothing except complaining about what's going on. Why don't we go do something? And those four guys and they happen to be lepers they got up and went and actually found that the entire situation changed and they brought the news back and it changed the trajectory of the nation of Israel. But what these four guys did, everybody else was sitting around and they got off their duff and went and did something and it changed the whole direction of the nation.Rick Green:
I just wanna make sure we clarify terms for our audience when you say they got up off their duff. I just wanna make I'm wondering if that's the donkey they were sitting on or something else that they were sitting on of their own.David Barton:
Well, if I go to athletics, I got up off their butt and went and did something, so that's a little closer.Tim Barton:
In our house actually it's your rear end or your backside or your bottom, because mynd a-year-old -year-old we're not quite to the elevated status of the butt yet. . Rick from the founding era, where the founding fathers intended. That is now all back on the table, but we have to be able, or we have to be willing, to fight for it, to be able to get that back and for people that wanna know, well, what exactly can we do? It's not just what should we do constitutionally, what does the law allow right now? Cause maybe if you're a teacher in a school and you wanna do something, what can you do? You can go to Restoring Faith in America, or you can go to First Liberty, to their website, and you can look for the teacher's guide. But Restoring Faith in America will have some of those updated stuff that will let you know exactly based on these court decisions. Here is the new standing in precedent. If you wanna take a stand for that, there might be pushback, but if there LFirst iberty is very happy to, at no expense to you, send a letter from an actual attorney's office to the principal, superintendent, school board, whoever it is, to inform them of what the current standard is now according to the law. And then, if the superintendent or the principal or the school board says, nope, you still can't have to take commandments up in your classroom, they are now violating the law and they are now liable for suppressing the freedom of speech, the freedom of religion, expression, et cetera. So this is something really important for teachers Go to Restoring Faith in America and really it's important for all of us to know what those are, because maybe you're not a teacher, but there's probably a teacher at your church. Probably you are friends with someone and maybe one of their kids, one of their grandkids, is a teacher. We all know people in the education system. We wanna be able to help guide them, coach them and encourage them to stand up with these freedoms that we have.David Barton:
Let me close it with a thought here. It's a historical thought. It goes back to a famous minister named Matthias Burnett and in talking to the people of that generation, he reminded them that they have a charge and an accountability, not just to God but to the younger generation. This is what he said. He said let not your children have reason to curse you for giving up those rights and prostrating those institutions which your father's delivered to you. In other words, you're going to answer to God, but the next generation, you're answering to them and hopefully our kids won't look at us and say you know, I couldn't make a difference in the school, but my parents could have made a difference and they didn't do a stinking thing about it, or my grandparents or anybody else. This is the kind of thing where they will answer to God for what we do or don't do. But also we have a direct impact on the next generation and we don't want them to look badly of us and think badly of us because we refuse to get involved.Rick Green:
What an encouraging, encouraging program. But just as David said at the beginning of the program, you know we win these cases. The law changes. It's on our side, but we have to act, we have to do something about it. So really encourage you to do that in your communities, in your schools, in your churches. I mean there's so many areas that we need to reestablish that freedom of religion in our country. I hope that you'll do that. I hope you encourage your pastor to be a part of that and in fact I'm looking forward to there's some great pastors conferences coming up in the next month or so. Really need to get your pastor plugged into those things. Liberty Pastors is one of the ones that we work with Paul Blair, who comes on the program, often a pastor out of Oklahoma that does a phenomenal job training pastors and he actually has these really cool retreats where it's like a vacation for the pastors three or four days at nice places. I think the one in in in February is in is in Georgia, st Simon's Island or Jekyll Island or one of those nice places. Anyway, you should check that out and send that link to your pastor l liberty L. comorg. Don't remember which one it is, but get them to go find that and make sure that they are, have an opportunity to plug your, your pastor and get your pastor and their spouse to go to one of these conferences. They are truly, truly remarkable, and that one in Georgia. I'll actually be there. So it's going to be, it's going to be kind of cool to get to team up with Pastor Blair and hang out with those the solution. The pastors that come, I'm telling you they go home on fire, like it's. It's just there's something about being around other pastors that are getting engaged in the culture and being part of of what is going to make a difference for the culture and actually win this thing over. And it can't be done without the churches. Folks Just can't be. It's got to be done with the churches. And so make sure that you, you've got your, your pastor, involved in that as well. And actually I just looked it up, it's liberty pastors, youcom, liberty pastors, youcom. And the get them involved in the one at Georgia they're going to, they're going to enjoy that. Okay, out of time for today, folks, thanks for joining us. that come, I'm telling you, they go home on fire. Like, it's just, there's something about being around other pastors that are getting engaged in the culture and being part of what is gonna make a difference for the culture and actually win this thing over, and it can't be done without the churches, folks. Just can't be. It's got to be done with the churches. And so make sure that you've got your pastor involved in that as well. And actually, I just looked it up. Liberty Pastors. LibertyPastors. com and get them involved in the one at Georgia. They're going to enjoy that. Okay, out of time for today, folks. Thanks for joining us. You've been listening to WallBuilders. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you in a little bit. Bye.