Rick Green
You found the intersection of faith and culture. It's the WallBuilders Show, taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. Appreciate you being with us. Hopefully you're listening all five days throughout the week, Monday through Friday. We do interviews Monday through Wednesday typically, and then Thursdays join us for Foundations of Freedom. Thursday that's when we answer your questions and if you've got some you'd like to send in, send them to radio@wallbuilders.com. And then Fridays Good News Friday, always bringing you as many good news stories as we can in that short period of time. Never get to all of them, but it's definitely a pick-me-up going into the weekend just knowing that we can make a difference and when we engage, we can actually influence the culture around us. We can have a positive influence on our families, our churches, our communities and certainly our state and our nation. And that's what WallBuilders is all about rebuilding those foundations, but doing it biblically, constitutionally, historically, making sure we're solid. We're building solid ground where we can pass the torch of freedom to the next generation and they have something solid to stand upon. So check it all out at wallbuilders.com.
I'm Rick Green, America's Constitution Coach, serving here with David and Tim Barton David's, America's premier historian and our founder at Wall Builders. Tim's a national speaker and pastor and president of Wall Builders and all three of us appreciate you listening, guys. Later in the program we got Bishop Jim Lowe back with us just an amazing, amazing guy doing phenomenal work in Alabama. But his story is incredible. I mean he goes all the way back to the bombings in Birmingham. He was actually a kid in church at one of the places that was bombed and, you know, could have become sour and bitter and instead he continues to be used by God to be a positive influence on his community. Just going to be really cool to hear his perspective on how to influence the culture.
David Barton
He is a remarkable man. He's a living legend, I would say, in the sense that he was part of what was happening with Martin Luther King and the Civil Rights Movement back in that day, he was at church when one of the churches was bombed. It blew up glass, killed individuals there. They were in the youth choir with him, so he saw all that firsthand, was part of that, and he has done such a good job of not holding bitterness. He understands that you don't fight against flesh and blood. It's against principalities and powers, as we're told in Ephesians 6.
And he's been such a good pastor and we did an event with him back in 2014 that was on restoring unity.
So Glenn Beck, we were working with Glenn Beck and we went into Birmingham and blacks and whites just gathered together, tens of thousands and we retraced the civil rights march of Birmingham, just arm in arm, black and whites together. And so Bishop Lowe was there a part of that. We were part of that. We got to know him at that point in time and just to see what he is doing in leadership now he's gotten involved there in Alabama with the family organization kind of the statewide family organization, the Family Policy Institute there in Alabama, and so now he's gone from being a pastor, which he still is, to being very actively engaged with the legislators, helping them to get righteous policies implemented in all sorts of areas, helping them understand what is right and wrong with public policy. And just such a good guy, such a good heart, such a good background, such a good story and such a good model of leadership, leading from inside the pulpit and outside the pulpit, inside the church and outside the church, he's just a remarkable man
Rick Green
All right, stay with us folks. Bishop Jim Lowe, our special guest, we'll be right back on the Wallbuilder Show.
Break
Rick Green
Welcome back to WallBuilders. Thanks for staying with us. Great to have Bishop Jim Lowe back with us. Been man a little over a year, bishop, thanks for coming back.
Appreciate you coming on.
Bishop Jim Lowe
Hey, glad to be with you, rick.
Rick Green
We appreciate you and you know David said we need to get the Bishop back on to talk about just his story and put it in context of all that's going on in the world right now I mean certainly across the college campuses in America and just so much hate out there, and you certainly obviously dealt with that even as a child and have managed to answer with God's love and man, we need that answer today in America, and so we just felt like we need to spend a little time with you today.
Bishop Jim Lowe
Well, I do think there are a lot of things that we need to do together as children of God. I think that's one of the things that separates us. We allow too much to separate us when Christ told us we needed to be one. We need a unified church. We need to stop seeing one another as 2 Corinthians tells us in 5.16, seeing one another according to the flesh. We need to get rid of the concept of black, white, rich, poor, elite, pauper. We need to realize if anyone has accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior. We are brothers and sisters. We need to see ourselves from the eyes of God and, like Martin Luther King said, if we don't learn to live together as brothers, we will perish as fools. And if the church doesn't unify under the banner of Jesus Christ, I want you to understand that the world is unified against us and they are coming after the church. You got to look at what that thing said, what he said back there. Oh, they came after this group, they came after that group, they came after this group. They're coming after the Jews again and certainly,
right on the end of that, they're coming after the Christians.
We've got to stand strong, rick, the Christians. We've got to stand strong, Rick, and we've got to rebuild this nation on the foundation of the Bible and the Constitution. And let us remind our legislators and our senators and our representatives that they took an oath on the Bible, which stands for righteousness and justice. They took an oath on the Bible saying they would protect and defend the Constitution of the United States that has limited the rights of government to those that are only written in that Constitution, and that every other right belongs to the people. And we, the people, must unite and stand and demand accountability from those who have taken an oath on the Bible for righteousness and justice and to defend the Constitution from all enemies, and those enemies can be domestic, as some of our leaders are enemies of our Constitution. You're about to get me to preach on this, because this is this is a passion I had
Rick Green
man, I was gonna say you're about to make me stand up and shout.
I'm telling you everything. You're saying 100 and you hit on so many good things. Man, I wish we had like five hours. I let let me. Let me just go straight to even well
Bishop Jim Lowe
let me hit one more thing on those college campuses right now.
Where are the American flags? I'm looking for American flags. We as a nation should be unified, but what we hear on those college campuses? We're talking about genocide by Israel. Are we forgetting what happened in the 40s with the Jews? Are we forgetting the foundation of what this nation was based upon, the word of God? Are we eliminating that and we're judging an entire nation to call out genocide, but them saying they're doing it, the ones who genocide was practiced on? Where are the American flags that talk about this nation? They want to use the principles of this nation in order to infringe upon the rights of others. That's right. Yeah, that's totally out of order.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely right, you know. Let's go to one more thing. I'm upset about the injustices and justices.
Look, I remember from what I've learned from history and what I've seen in my life that political parties will exploit minorities those when they've got power, they go against the Constitution and they come against a minority. I see a two-tier justice system in this nation being reestablished. The same principles that were carried against blacks in the 1800s and the 1900s. They're redoing it now. But right now it's not just against blacks, it's against whites, it's against others that do not have the power to fight back.
Our government is becoming our enemy and if we sit silent and we don't vote right, we will lose our republic. And that's what Benjamin Franklin said we give you a republic if you can keep it. And it's time. The people of God need to rally together and stand together and stand for the principles of righteousness and justice. There's too much unrighteousness going on in this nation today. It's too much injustice, just like it was done back in the 20th century, and we're doing it in the 21st century now. And the 21st century is the minority ruling over the majority. That's a tyranny.
Rick Green
no, brother, you you got. You know you make it really hard on me as a host because you just dropped so many good truth bombs and I have to pick which ones to to. To spend our limited time together on this is so good, I'm telling you, I, in fact I, it's hard to pick, I'm gonna pick. I'm gonna pick biblical justice versus social justice, because you just described it as good as anybody I've heard in how social justice judges you. You know two-tiered justice. It's based on color of skin, based on all the you know which church you go to, which political affiliation, and it's literally using the power of those in control to abuse the minority, and obviously done to blacks in the 1800s and 1960s and all of those things. And as you just described it, it's now being used against anybody that's not in power. They become the minority. Talk about biblical justice and how different it is because of not seeing Jew nor Greek and not judging each other on those things so that everybody's treated equal.
Bishop Jim Lowe
Biblical justice is based upon the Word of God. There is only one true, righteous judge, and that's our Lord and our Savior Jesus, and the God of the Bible talks about truth and justice. You've got to know truth. But what is truth? Jesus says that when you come to know him, you will know truth, and then truth will make you free. You've got to know the truth of God, not the truth of man.
We have come to a truth today that we can't even distinguish between a male and a female. From the very beginning, truth was that God made them male and female, but something has happened. As the nation has grown and come into the 21st century, we have lost the identity of what truth is, and truth is male and female, but people can't tell the difference anymore. We probably need legislation now to define what a man is and what a woman is, but if we go to the fundamentals of truth, it's the word of God.
Social justice and social truths that we have are subject to change. Don't we realize that DEI is actually racism? That when you deal, I got to choose somebody not on the character of their heart and the content of their character, but by the color of their skin or by their gender identity or by whatever we want to separate ourselves with and we need to have inclusiveness on this, not based upon merit. This nation has lost its identity and the truth of justice is from the Word of God. That is fundamental. Until we return back to the fundamentals of the word of God and constitutional principles, this nation will falter and ultimately, like all the nations of history, this will go into the dust of books that are written about us that are lost.
Rick Green
Amen, amen. There's no doubt about it.
Bishop Jim Lowe
I'll answer your question. You just called me while I was in a point of meditation before you called and I was meditating on some things, so I just left talking with the Lord about some things and he's firing me up about what needs to be done.
Rick Green
I love it, I love it. And when you say be done, you're doing and I want to ask you about that too, and that is as a pastor being involved with Alabama Family Policy Alliance and legislation at the state level. And what do you say to your fellow pastors when they tell you you know, hey, man, you're not supposed to be getting over in that politics stuff, we're just supposed to spread the gospel. And they define the gospel as just a salvation message instead of making disciples. I mean, how do you respond to that? Because that debate is raging right now within the church.
Bishop Jim Lowe
Wait a minute wait a minute.
If a black man and black preachers had not brought the truth to a racist nation? Where would we be today? If we didn't have Martin Luther King? If we didn't have preachers that came out of their pulpits and went to the street to bring the truth of the living word of God? Where would black people be today? Where would real truth be today? And where would civil rights be today? And human rights?
If the people of the pulpit do not begin to stand speaking for truth, then we will all be mowed over by an enemy that is arrayed against us. The church must unite, the church must not divide. We must get rid of our denominationalism, must get rid of our segregation. On Sunday mornings, the church must begin to look like what we all are children of God. Yeah, amen, we're going to fit all these things. So, yeah, preachers are the ones you know. I go back with Charles and what Charles Finney's statements were We have got to take those fans that the pulpit is responsible for what's going on in our society today. That's right.
Rick Green
Yeah, you could look at any area of the culture and, like Finney said, if you see corruption in journalism or politics or any of those areas, the pulpit's responsible for it, because without salt, the meat spoils and it's spoiling all around us. I'm so thankful for you, brother. I'm so thankful that you are not just a man of God, but a man of God for this time. You're a man of Issachar, understanding the times and knowing what to do. And I don't know if you can feel it. I sure feel an awakening happening and as I travel across the country, more and more pastors, more and more Christians are saying I'm not going to sit on the sidelines anymore, I want to be involved, and a lot of that's from guys like you standing up and speaking truth and inspiring them to make a difference. So I just want to say thank you.
Bishop Jim Lowe
But look, Rick, if Moses had not gone to Pharaoh, wasn't Moses a man of God? He went to Pharaoh, Don't? We have countless examples that Nathan went to David and he told David what truth was. Moses went to Pharaoh, told him what truth was. Jesus went to Pilate and Pilate asked what is truth? You know so, truth comes from the word of God and we're the ones. We are the light of the world and, as you said a minute ago, the salt of the earth. And if we don't take our stance, who is going to preserve our society?
Rick Green
That's right. So good, bishop, we've got to get you back sooner. A year was too long. Let's get you back. I appreciate you, man. Thank you for spending some time with us today.
Bishop Jim Lowe
God bless you, man, and to everyone that's out there. Let's be united as children of God.
Rick Green
Amen, that's Bishop Jim Lowe. Folks, stay with us. We'll be right back with David and Tim Barton
Break
Rick Green
We're back here on the WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us. Thanks to Bishop Jim Lowe for being with us as well. And, David, clearly he blames you, he told me on the break for all of his political activity at this point and for all of his hate mail and for all the good that he's doing. So he said you tell Barton, it's his fault.
David Barton
Well, if that be the case, I'm so glad to have another warrior in the fight. We need a whole lot more and we need a whole lot more folks that listen to the Bible, listen to history and respond more folks that listen to the Bible, listen to history and respond. And kudos to him for the courage he's shown in doing that, because it's not been an easy thing in his community to take the stands he has taken and to work with people he's worked with. But he's done that and he's done it very successfully and he's having a very positive impact on that state in a way that he never imagined he could. So Jim is just a remarkable model for all pastors and all Christians everywhere.
Tim Barton
Well, guys, just hearing him throughout the interview certainly reminds you of someone that has come alive for some of these basic thoughts and concepts.
Going back to one of the things, dad, you've talked about for decades now, Rick and I are telling some of those similar stories about the early pastors in the American Revolution, the ones who were leading the way.
When you go back to a book, for example, Alice Baldwin, a professor from Duke University back in the 1930s, 40s and 50s In 1928, I think is when her book first came out it was called the New England Clergy in the American Revolution, and in that book she identified that there wasn't a single idea in the Declaration that had not been preached first from American pulpits, idea in the declaration that had not been preached first from American pulpits. And to kind of wrap your head around that, the implication is that what the founding fathers were saying were not just uniquely political ideas. These were ideas that pastors had been teaching for decades leading into the American Revolution. Pastors were the ones shaping culture. They were the ones shaping the leaders and the influences in the state. And so now to hear right, bishop Lowe being another one of these guys recognizing the role of the pastor, the role of the Bible and a Christian engaging in such a way. It really is encouraging to see somebody that's kind of come alive to want to make a difference in their state and in public policy.
David Barton
You know, it's been interesting too just to hear him ask simple questions, because just listen to him, he's talking about the unrest and all the stuff that's going on in college campuses and all the Hamas demonstrations, and his question was where are the American flags? And that's a good question, because over recent weeks there's certainly more Palestinian flags on campuses than there are American flags on campuses, and so that leads to another question why would you send your kid to a campus where they don't fly an American flag? Doesn't that tell you something about the philosophy and what your kids are going to get? And so Jim is just able to see things like that and ask really insightful questions. And I think that is a key question how come so many of these campuses do not fly American flags? Or, when they do, they get protested on campus by even faculty and leaders on campus and all these other flags that are anti our values. They're welcome on campus, and that's the kind of stuff that he's bringing clarity to and that he's really pointing out, that he's really pointed out, and to hear him be as a black man, as a black leader, having gone through the civil rights movement, take such an opposite position to so many black civil rights leaders today on things even like DEI. I mean you would think that with a lot of the black community leaders that we hear on TV, they've bought into that that race is the most important thing. With him it's not, it's faith and it's country and it's God, and he has his priorities right in a very real way and he knows that in Christ there's neither Jew nor Greek. There's neither black nor white, nor any other color.
It is based on your relationship with God and that's what makes him such a good leader and a good spokesman in Alabama for all these legislators that he's working with.
Tim Barton
Well, too, even as he highlights DEI and the brokenness of what DEI is. Guys, I was just reading an article about how the University of North Carolina said that they were doing away with their DEI program. They're taking all the funding and putting it back into campus police and campus security, and so it's really encouraging.
David Barton
Wait a minute. Is that suggesting that DEI is encouraging unrest and riots
Tim Barton
At the very minimum, it is what is tolerant of that kind of behavior.
We can go back to something like the Great Reset, the ESG movement, the environmental, the social, the governance. And DEI is the S on ESG and I know there's a lot of acronyms and it's throwing a lot at you If you've been listening very long we've talked about these things in detail, but ESG is part of the restructuring of America and it's an environmental, the social and the governance. Well, the social side is DEI. It's diversity, equity and inclusion, and it is absolutely a ridiculous position where, instead of saying that we should look at people based on the content of their character and saying, nope, we look at people exclusively based on the color of their skin, based on their gender identity, their sexual preference, right, whatever it might be. That is how we define and identify them. And this idea that we want to have a lot of diversity of thought on college campuses. Well, how many Christian conservative professors do you have on your campus? Because you're not very diverse when it comes to Christian conservative views. It really is just diversity of the way people look, centered around one common opinion, and it's a brokenness of DEI. But again, when you have people like Bishop Lowe. Well, for whatever reason right, there are people that will give more credence to somebody like Bishop Lowe than would to one of us because of the DEI metric right of where somebody like that might fall.
And certainly when you have someone like Bishop Lowe, who not only was part of the civil rights movement but, as you mentioned earlier, he was actually in a building that was bombed, he was part of literally a church bombing back in the civil rights movement and even to see his journey of forgiveness and wow, what he's had to deal with and navigate and how he turned his life over to God and fully embraced the gospel message.
I had the privilege many years ago of doing a show with him. I think it was centered around Black History Month. It was part of, I think I think it was part of America's Hidden History Season 1, where Bishop Lowe and I did this interview together. But just, he's such a remarkable man, absolutely incredible how God is using him and dad, as he mentioned, he's just one of many people that, when you look at the people that have heard the truth of American history that you've been sharing for so many decades, that have come alive to that truth, there are so many pastors, so many leaders, politicians who have discovered truth and come alive. And he's won more of those and we're so grateful for Bishop Lowe and all he's doing.
David Barton
And I'll just add to it With Bishop Lowe, he did the right thing. He did exactly what Paul praised the Bereans for in Acts 17. Paul had his message, but he said they didn't believe me. They went and searched to see if I was telling them the truth. And that's what Bishop Lowe and everyone else should do. Just because I or anyone else say something doesn't mean anything. It might be new information, but before you receive it, you need to go check it out and see if it's actually true, if it's accurate, if it's something you can rely on, and if it is, then embrace it and make it your own. And so it's not the thing where you need to follow particular people or social media or whatever. You just need to find out the truth, no matter who's given it to you. And that's something Bishop Lowe has been very, very good at over time. All his years, all his decades, he's been a truth seeker, and when he finds it, he embraces it and acts on it, and that's to be commended for sure.
Rick Green
Well, and just to emphasize the courage you know when you're standing up and most of the people in your community are against what you're standing for and they don't want truth yet. And it's part of the danger of socialism in any area, and we're seeing it march all across this country and so in in more and more communities across America. It's getting harder and harder to stand and the stronger the socialists become, they silence you if you do speak, and so it's kind of a unfortunately it's a, it's a snowball effect, so it takes very thankful for him. We're out of time for today, folks, but you can get more of our programming at our website. Wallbuilders.show is where you can find all the radio programs, and then wallbuilders.com for all kinds of great materials and resources for you and your family. Thanks for listening to The WallBuilder Show, thank you.
