Rick Green
Welcome to the Intersection of Faith and Culture. It's Wall Builders and we are taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. You can find out more about us at our website, wallbuilders.com. That's wallbuilders.com. David Barton, America's premier historian and our founder at WallBuilders, with us today. Tim Barton, national speaker and pastor and president of WallBuilders, and I'm Rick Green, America's Constitution Coach.
All three of us appreciate you joining us, but please be sure to check out the website wallbuilders.com. Lots of tools for you there and encourage you to get equipped and inspired and be a force multiplier. Take some of those tools and share them with your friends and family. We've got a lot of great events coming up this year, so check out all the different special programs that are going to happen this summer, the pastor's briefings that are going throughout the year all kinds of good stuff. So check it out there at wallbuilders.com, David and Tim. A little later, Ken Ivory is going to join us. We're going to talk about this bill he got passed in Utah just a few weeks back to start moving towards precious metals as a way to do currency, and I guess you know historically we haven't done that for quite a while, but the Constitution does allow for states to do that.
David Barton
Yeah, and the Constitution does that for a good reason. The founding fathers had bad experiences when they did not use gold and silver as the basis of their currency. In the American Revolution they started out having about somewhere around I think it was 14 million they had in gold and silver and so as they were issuing currency, they had enough gold and silver to cover all their currency. But as the war went on and they needed more money, they just started doing what Biden's doing now, and that's just printing paper like crazy. And soon they got to where they had a whole lot more money out than they had gold and silver, and by the time the American War for Independence was over, inflation was running 97.5% if you can imagine inflation that high. So when the Constitution comes around they say we think we'll do this gold and silver as the basis, and so that's where it had been for a long time. But every time we got away from that you have president James Monroe, who got away from it led to the crisis of 1819.
They started printing more paper than they had gold and silver to back it.
Then you really have a big I think it's a six to eight year long kind of depression recession under Andrew Jackson, the economic crisis of 1837, same thing. They started printing more paper money than they had gold and silver for, and so the founding fathers had good reason for putting that in there. And whenever we get away from it and do what we're doing right now and that's just printing more paper and more paper and more paper and putting more currency into circulation, inflation goes higher and higher and higher and the value of what you have goes down, down, down. So states are starting to look now seriously at using gold and silver or doing something with it, because there are so many banks right now, so many economists that are predicting a pretty big economic collapse probably coming because we can't spend the way we've been spending and not have something happen to equalize that. So this is going to be a fun interview to hear what Utah is doing on going back to the founding fathers kind of concept of gold and silver backing for your currency.
Rick Green
Well, david Ken's going to come on. Ken Ivory from Utah is going to come on. When we come back from the break. We'll talk about what they're doing there and hopefully it's something that'll catch on across the country. Stay with us folks. You're listening to The WallBuilders Show.
Tim Barton
Hey guys, it's Tim Barton and I want to let you know about an opportunity coming up for pastors and ministry leaders. We are doing our annual pastors briefing in Washington DC and we do this every year. We do one in the spring, we do one in the fall. This spring it's April 16th and 17th. This fall it is September 10th and 11th. This is one of the most significant things we do to encourage and challenge pastors in this culture we live in. It's in Washington DC.
On Tuesday night we do an afterhours tour of the US Capitol where we introduce pastors and ministry leaders to the history of the nation. The following day we have congressmen come and they give a briefing on what they're doing and how God is challenging and motivating and using them. And, frankly, most pastors, most ministry leaders, they don't know the rich spiritual heritage of the nation or what God is still doing moving in the hearts and lives of leaders in this nation. I would encourage you if you're a pastor, ministry leader, you need to come to this. It's one of the best things we do at WallBuilders. To find out more, go to wallbuilders.com and look for the pastor's briefing.
Rick Gteen
Welcome back to WallBuilders Ken Ivory back with us, state representative in Utah and great friend to Patriot Academy and Wall Builders both. Hey brother, how you doing, man Rick?
Ken Ivory
it's always a good day when I can hang out with you, man.
Rick Green
Well you're emerging from the legislative session. I remember those days I always wanted like a month-long vacation when that was done. But you didn't take a month, you're only a week out and you were willing to talk to us on radio. So you're a braver man than I was.
Ken Ivory
Oh man, I'm excited about it. We did some great stuff and we're going to lead out in Utah, like we like to do, and we got some good things we got done. Got a lot more we still need to get done, but no, it's exciting.
It's an exciting time,
Rick Green
You had really a unique session from the standpoint of having a lot of your colleagues and you talking about how states need to stand up, and there just seemed to be. I mean, you've, of course, done this for years and years and years, but more people are responding and your message is not. You don't feel like you're talking to yourself in a room by yourself. There's so many more people now that are realizing listen, the federal government's a mess. They're destroying the dollar. We've got to start thinking about ways for states to step up. So I've been thrilled to see that you're not alone in this In Utah. There's other states talking about it. So I feel like we're gaining some momentum. We're not getting everything we want. Obviously, we would love to pass some other things as well, but you passed a bill that's getting us moving in the right direction on the transactional gold and really getting back to some good currency that's backed by metals.
Ken Ivory
Yeah, that's right, Rick. House Bill 348, precious metals amendments. You know, the Article 1, section 10 of the Constitution states shall make nothing but gold and silver legal tender and payment of debts. That means we're supposed to make gold and silver legal tender and payment of debts, but right now our federal partner taxes our money. They tax gold and silver as an asset and not money. And you know what house bill 348 did it was a. It was, you know, taking steps to move that direction.
We have our good treasure, Marlo Oaks. You know, Marlo, he's one of the ones leading the nation on ESG and fighting against natural asset companies, working with us on that. He's a super, super good one. So, uh, it allows Marlo to invest a portion of our rainy day fund. We got a $1.4 billion rainy day fund. It allows him to invest up to 10% of that in precious metals and then a study group to look at how we expand and advance our precious metal economy in Utah. Number one export in Utah, Rick, gold, by far. Number one import in Utah is gold by far.
Rick Green
I had no idea You're kidding me.
Ken Ivory
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we've got the Rio Tinto mine and a byproduct of mining copper, they get a bunch of gold and silver. In fact that pays almost all their operations. Everything else is gravy operations, everything else is gravy. But then we've got a bunch of refineries in Utah. So number one export is gold by about seven times over, and then number one import because we refine it and all the rest
Rick Green
So why was this necessary to do now? I mean, you would have thought with that that the legislature would have already been moving this direction
Yeah, you would have thought but for the treasurers theres a money management act and there’s a very restrictive list on the kinds of things they can invest those rainy day funds and ongoing operating account funds into.
and so this makes perfect sense to invest the rainy day fund. I mean rainy day fund. Gold and silver are the best rainy day assets since Noah. Right, I mean, this is how you store wealth. Let me just give you an example.
Right, 1971 is when Richard Nixon took us off the gold standard. He said temporarily. I read about this. France. So we were diluting the dollar for the Vietnam War and the Great Society and all the rest. France shows up in New York Harbor with a battleship loaded full of pallets full of dollars and said give us the gold. And that's what Nixon got Nixon excited. He said okay, give them the gold. Now shut it down. We can't have everybody taking away all the gold because they caught us with our hand in the cookie jar just printing dollars out of control. He takes us temporarily off the gold standard. He says temporarily, forever. But uh, 1971, Rick, get this.
1971, the average house cost $17,000. You could also buy it for 17,000 grams of gold. Today, the average house is $500,000. The 17 doesn't even get you close to a down payment, but the 17,000 grams of gold. Get this, this. You could buy two houses with 17,000 grams of gold and have about 90,000 dollars left over.
Rick Green
Wow,
Ken Ivory
that's how badly our dollar has been devalued. Just the value has just been ripped out, stolen right out from under us. And that's what. When they debase the currency and they print money, it's the most regressive tax of all. It takes the value of everything we earn and everything we've ever saved. It just taxes that right out from under us. So that's where that's such a really regressive tax. So, moving down this direction, where we start this on the investment of the rainy day funds but then we're going to study working toward fractional transactional ability for citizens to hold gold and be able to transact fractionally, and we've got those gold backs that some of the people have seen from the bill that we passed in 2011. So, no, it's a good, good step. There's a lot more to do, but it's a really good step in the right direction. Really encourage other states. You know, talk to the legislators, talk to others, get them on the same page with us, exactly, exactly, and what do you think is next?
Rick Green
Like, what do you hope to see if this is a positive step? Take us through those next few steps of where you'd like to stand up.
Rick Green
Yeah, yeah. So some of the next steps? Great question you know the fact that the federal government is taxing money. So I think some of the next steps is we'll authorize the payment of taxes in gold and silver and then that will tee up the legal case with the federal government on taxing gold and silver, capital gain tax on gold and silver. Then we'd also look at performance bonding, security bonding, that kind of stuff in gold. And then really the real key is when we start to develop a fractional, transactional gold system so that the gold is vaulted in Utah, it's audited, it's insured, it's secured. People can redeem gold and silver so that they can buy $10 worth of gold. You know they could take 10, 20, $50 out of their paycheck, put it in gold so that a year from now it has the same worth, maybe more. It's not being you know, that value is not being stolen out from under them in dollars, and so I think I think things like that really get us start moving to where we have a. It gives people options, right.
It gives them another way to pay and then a way to preserve the purchasing power of their earnings and savings. Because right now the federal government is just literally and worse and until it hits people in their own pocketbook, their own kitchen table. They sometimes don't necessarily want to listen to this kind of a conversation. But now, man, they realize this is necessary and I think part of what I love about this is it makes the purchasing power through precious metals available to average Joe right, instead of you have to be a financial whatever person or uber wealthy or whatever. It just makes it where we can all be a part of it.
Ken Ivory
Yeah, and people are seeing it right. You go to the grocery store and my favorite well, the one that gets me right in the heart you go to the store to buy ice cream and the carton is half as big and it costs twice as much. And you see your Gatorade bottle has a big dimple in the bottle, halfway up the bottle. I mean, these are the ways that they call it, shrinkflation. And so the things that we buy, the packages, are getting smaller and smaller, but the price is still going up and it's the way that they hide the inflation. And, Rick, this is going to start.
We're going to see this more and more because when Nixon went off the gold standard, they replaced that by going to Saudi Arabia and said hey, we'll protect you, we'll give you military equipment if you only sell oil for dollars. That's called the petrodollar. Well, January 1 this year, China busted that petrodollar up. They've got that BRICS trading block, the Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa trading block, but now they have Saudi Arabia, Iran, United Arab Emirates, all these oil producing countries. They've now agreed to sell oil in currencies other than the dollar. So we don't have a gun to the world's head saying, hey, you have to buy dollars to get oil, and so that story is going to get a lot more turbulent going forward. And the only game in town for the Fed is to print money, and it just again just takes the value of people's money away even faster than ever.
Rick Green
Man, that's a daunting one to overcome because, you know, we have to solidify and shore things up ourselves. We can't count on the rest of the world at this point, and that's why these steps are so important. I think we've got to stop looking to the, you know, Washington DC. We got to stop looking to, you know, being able to just live off of the hard work of previous generations that made the dollar so strong. We've got to take some bold steps like this. You mentioned other states and legislators you're talking to around the country. How does that play into this? Sure?
Ken Ivory
Yeah, so I think, Tennessee I've heard from Kansas, Alaska I know Texas is in the game on this as well a bunch of other states looking into various steps. You know, I think, the more and more, the more states work on transactional and investments in gold. It sets up an alternate payment system, and so the dollar is not the only game in town. That's why you're seeing Bitcoin go through the roof. The confidence in the dollar is eroding because Washington's painted us in a corner, Rick. I mean, Washington has become nothing more than a favor factory, really, both sides of the aisle. They get elected and then they've got to dole out favors, and so they take Constitutional power away from the people, away from the states, so they can dole out more and more favors to get reelected, and it just erodes the constitutional system.
So we've got to get back to where we've got self-reliance. That starts with being, you know, having our money, have its purchasing power, be sound money, be a store of value, and then just all the stuff that Patriot Academy does. We got to teach people get right back to that Biblical jurisdiction, the governing jurisdiction, where the people are the sovereign. They understand their jurisdiction, they understand that we've given just a tiny amount of our power to government and then an even much, much smaller amount to the federal government, and restore those jurisdictional lines.
And starting with money as a fixed store of value, article 1, section 8, clause 4 says Congress shall regulate the value of the money and fix a standard of weights and measures. Imagine you go to the butcher and you say, hey, I want a pound of hamburger, and he comes out with a thimble. Or you go to your architect and say I want a 3,500-square-foot house and when he's done it fits in the back of your pickup. And they say, oh well, that's what a foot is today and that's what a thimble. You know that's what a pound is. We just change that fixed standard of weights and measures. When they do that to the dollar or it just disrupts the whole economy.
Rick Green
Man, I'm thinking we need a course just on this, just to teach basic economics and why this is so important for the future of the country and for individual states. I mean, there's just a need for us to, like I said, we can no longer rely on our well, as you would say, they're our employees, we're the boss, they work for us, but we can no longer rely on our well, as you would say, they're our employees, we're the boss, they work for us, but we can no longer rely on those public servants to just do the right thing. We're going to have to start putting the pressure on politically with regard to how the money supply is handled.
Ken Ivory
I'll curdle your milk a little bit more if you want. So this favor factory has gotten so bad. Right, they take away constitutional power, and I should say we, the people, and we in the states, have allowed them to take away our constitutional power and jurisdiction. But any guess, there are a number of studies on this. What is the return on investment for lobbying Congress on major legislation?
Rick Green
Hmm, man.
Ken Ivory
Great return would be 10% right. 20% would be outstanding, 50% would be outrageous right.
Rick Green
I'm guessing it's more.
Ken Ivory
ROI for lobbying Congress on major legislation. I had a study years ago when I was teaching the federalism class at UVU from University of Kansas 22,000% return on investment. And then someone corrected me and said no, no, no, it's gone up, it's 76,000%. Wow, so you spend a million dollars lobbying Congress on major legislation. You can expect 76 billion back.
Rick Green
Wow, no wonder they have the game rigged.
Ken Ivory
Yeah, I mean, rick. Nine of the 10 wealthiest zip codes in America are all around DC and it's just parasitic. They don't produce anything.
Rick Green
Wow.
Ken Ivory
That's why it's critical. That's why it's critical that we, the people, we have to understand that we're the boss, we haven't been minding the store and, just like any enterprise, if you're the boss and you're not minding the store, employees are going to do whatever is convenient for them. The store and the jurisdictional lines are all blurred and the people farthest away from government Thomas Jefferson said the lines will be blurred and they'll be bought and sold as if at market and it'll become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated. It's time for we, the people, the boss, the sovereign, to step up. We got to restore the jurisdictional line, restore sound money, put a big fat close sign on the favor factory in DC and say here's your view, and define powers. Get that right. But we've got a country to save and we do that by restoring all the jurisdictional lines that you teach about so well in biblical citizenship and constitutional alive and all the constitutional coaches in Patriot Academy. It's critical more than ever.
Rick Green
Amen, amen no doubt about it. A lot to do, but hey, listen, it can. It can be turned around. The principles still work, just like you're saying, man, let's go teach those things, get people educated on it, Ken Ivory. Thank you, brother, looking forward to more good news and and more good legislation in the future. Glad to hear that there's positive movement in this direction. Looking forward to having you back soon, man
Ken Ivory
Right on, man Never forget. One person can make a difference. That's the beauty of our country.
Rick Green
Amen, amen, absolutely. Thanks, brother. Yeah, appreciate you coming on. That's State Rep Ken Ivory. Stay with us folks, we'll be right back with David and Tim Barton.
Tim Barton
Hey guys, it's Tim Barton and I want to tell you about our new book, the American Story Building the Republic. We start with George Washington as president and we've already become a nation. So really now it's how do we function as a nation? And if we look back in American history, the stability, the prosperity, success we enjoyed as Americans is because of the foundation that our early presidents laid, because of the examples they set. How do we live in America under the Constitution? What is the role of federal government and really what part did each one of these early presidents play? We go through the first seven presidents and a lot of people probably know the names Washington, Adams, Jefferson and Madison. Very few people know about Monroe or John Quincy Adams or Andrew Jackson. Now, we might know some of their names, we really don't know their stories. We want you to relearn, rediscover American history and see how it applies to today. Go to wallbuilders.com and get your copy of the American Story Building the Republic.
Rick Green
We're back on WallBuilders. Thanks for staying with us. Thanks to Ken Ivory out in Utah doing some good work out there not only this bill on precious metals, but getting a lot of people studying the Constitution, learning how to be the boss and make sure that they're keeping their elected officials on their toes. David, Tim, you know this is. Obviously we'd love to see an actual transactional gold bill pass and hopefully that's going to happen in the next few months or early next year. But this is a great step to at least be studying these things. And, David, you were man. I didn't realize. What did you say? 97% inflation or something crazy
David Barton
97.5% Thomas Jefferson, that's how he got $2.5 million in debt. Was he had a lot of money invested in the war for independence and it was worth nothing. When it was over and they paid him back in money that was worth nothing, he lost 97.5% of the value of his money by investing in the American war for independence.
Rick Green
I didn't know that. I mean, I knew that he had. Didn't he like sell his library to Congress or something? Was that him? But I didn't know. That's how he went broke. Wow, man.
Tim Barton
Well, also, he married into a lot of debt as well. Right, so there was more than one factor, I think, for Jefferson. But yes, Rick, to your point he was in significant debt at the end of his life. And dad, I did not do the math on this, but it struck me when Kim was talking about or was it back in 1971? Is that what he said when $17,000 was the average price of a home and it was 17,000, what did he say? Was it grams of gold or? But what's remarkable about this is, as he pointed out, if you look today, for that amount of gold, you could get two houses, $500,000 each, so that's a million dollars plus $90,000 left over. I did not do the math on that inflation, but I feel like that could be close to 97.5% since 1970. And I don't think it's quite the same.
However, that feeling, and as we're seeing Congress print more and more money and we're seeing states begin to take action, Ken Ivory is somebody we've done a lot of work with over the years through our Pro-family Legislative Network. We've been very connected with him and just pointing guys back to the Constitution and trying to give them guidance from history, from precedent, and really educating them on some of these issues. If you go to the Constitution, Article 1, section 8, it actually does talk about Congress, the federal government. Right, they have the power to do coin and to establish value. But it's interesting one of the things we've heard several people say is the Constitution doesn't give the same authority for a paper currency, and certainly not when it's not backed by some kind of good of a gold or silver. There's a lot of interesting things where we have seen the government, the federal government specifically, be very derelict and negligent in their duty. Why in Texas you see Governor Abbott working to secure the border of Texas? Because the federal government has neglected to do that.
You see a lot of states stepping up and doing things that traditionally had been believed to be the role of the federal government. Now, whether it was really supposed to be or not, that might be a different discussion, but you're seeing a lot of governors, a lot of states, trying to solve problems that ultimately is becoming exacerbated under the Biden administration. I won't say they caused this problem necessarily, but they certainly exacerbated it. They made this a front page headline kind of issue and it's certainly interesting to see a lot of these states begin to flex some of their 10th Amendment state power muscles and say that we have the right and authority to do some of these things, and not just because the federal government is doing it wrong, but because in many cases the federal government wasn't granted authority to do some of what they're doing in the first place and therefore states have power and authority to fill in whatever gaps that the Constitution, in the 10th Amendment, says whatever powers were not expressly given to the federal government in the Constitution belong to the states. That's the 10th Amendment says whatever powers were not expressly given to the federal government in the Constitution belong to the states. That's the 10th Amendment. And so if you're seeing that there are certain things the government is doing that were not expressly given to the federal government in the Constitution, it does make sense, like what Ken is saying, that we step up and work to preserve some of these things.
David Barton
And Rick, you know we all listened at the end there when Ken was going through various clauses of the constitution, talking about economic things, and you made the comment and said man, we need a basic economic course and I cannot agree more. But while we're at it, can we also add a basic civics course and maybe a basic government course and maybe even a basic budgeting course? And how about even a reading course? And maybe a basic government course and maybe even a basic budgeting course? And how about even a reading course and maybe a math course and maybe a two-gender course? And what we're getting is modern monetary theory, we're getting DEI, we're getting all the other stuff that is not helpful, and what Ken went through is what most Americans used to know and understand and we really do need to get back to that so we can hold our government accountable to it. But it's good to see Utah moving in the right direction, for sure.
Rick Green
Well, David, all I can think about is you kept talking about getting back to the basics. We should maybe close out today with Waylon Jennings' song. Let's Go to Luckenbach, Texas. You know it's time to get back to the basics of life and it just so happens Luckenbach, Texas, right by Fredericksburg, Texas, which is the Patriot Academy campus, which is where you go to get back to the basics and study the Constitution and all these things. So, anyway, I don't think we can play that song without, you know, having to pay Waylon Jennings estate a bunch of money or something. But let's get back to the basics, folks. Go study, get on wallbuilders.com today, get your Constitution class, get Foundations of Freedom, start studying and share it with your friends and family. Thanks so much for listening. You've been listening to WallBuilders.