The WallBuilders Show

Igniting the Flame of Biblical Citizenship Wk 8: Embracing Our Legacy, part 2

February 28, 2024 Tim Barton, David Barton & Rick Green
The WallBuilders Show
Igniting the Flame of Biblical Citizenship Wk 8: Embracing Our Legacy, part 2
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Discover the profound impact of biblical principles on American freedom as we bring you our eight-week course. We're reminding you that the torch of liberty is in your hands, ready to be kindled by your participation in elections, judicial appointments, and legal support groups. You'll see how biblical education becomes a beacon of hope, guiding us to uphold the spirit of our republic against the tide of negativity. With a call to embrace our freedom of religion, speech, and the press, we embody the spirit of Joshua and Caleb, optimistically facing challenges to preserve our cherished freedoms.

Navigating the waters of constitutional amendments, we uncover the genius of our Founding Fathers in Article 5's design—a testament to their dedication to enduring and deliberate change. Only 27 amendments have weathered the storm of consensus out of more than 10,000 proposed, a ratio that commands our respect for the integrity of the system our founders created. As we consider the bipartisan nature of successful amendments, we gaze into the future at how we might fortify the Constitution, ensuring it remains a shield for our liberties against the encroachment of governmental overreach.

Zooming in on the state level, we shed light on the oft-overlooked authority of state legislators—a direct conduit for the people's voice. Through our discussion, we realize the wisdom in the founders' decision to place such power in the hands of those closest to the citizenry. Reflecting on a simulated convention of states, we underscore the educational value of such events, reinforcing why the Article 5 constitutional pathway to amendment is not only safe but essential. Embracing Article 5, we stand firm in the conviction that our Constitution is meant to be actively engaged with, as a tool to be wielded responsibly.

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to Wabble, the intersection of faith and the culture. We're taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. And this week if you were listening yesterday you already know this, but if you're just tuning in today we are sharing with you week eight of biblical citizenship. That's the final week in that eight week course where we talk about action items that everyone can take in their communities. Yesterday we started it, we went as far as we could in the programming time that we have and right now we're going to dive right back in and pick up where we left off yesterday with biblical citizenship in modern America. You know what I'm really asking you to do. I'm asking you to give of your lives, your fortunes and your sacred honor, just like these guys did when they came forward and signed beneath that amazing final sentence and they pledged their lives, fortunes and sacred honor. They gave it. I'm asking you to give of your life, your time. Your life is your time. I'm asking you to give a few hours a week to help work the system, because the system will work, what they created will work if we'll work it. Your fortunes given of your money to good causes out there, good candidates out there, that will be good government and sacred honor. That's the willingness for all of us to stand up and speak the truth. Don't be afraid of. You know, let the chips fall where they may. People are going to call me. They do call me All kinds of names. You know what. They're not shooting at me. I mean these guys that served and were willing to give their lives and have bullets whizz past their heads. That's sacrifice, man. It's easy for me to stand up and speak the truth and let people call me whatever I want. That's sacred honor. Lives, fortunes and sacred honor. Give of it, invest in those three areas. So you do it for Congress, you do it for the president. So in Article 2, what is our job? It's voting, it's being involved in choosing a good president. You say Article 3, rick, what could I possibly do there? Those judges are appointed by the president. I can't influence that. Well, you influence who the US senators are that are going to approve those judges and you get involved at the local level back home in your state. About half the states elect their state judges. That's the farm team. So you can influence who the farm team is that will later be the federal judges. And then you can support some of these great organizations out there Alliance Defense Fund and the ACLJ and Pacific Justice Institute and Liberty Council and just great legal organizations that are arguing before the Supreme Court and helping to raise up good attorneys and good judges. Article 4, I mentioned earlier. We're a republic, not a democracy. Educate people on that. It's right there in Article 4. Get plugged in. Listen to our radio program daily. We're going to encourage you. We're not a doomsday organization.

Speaker 1:

A lot of people you know they run around the country saying it's all over, america's done for. Grab your guns and can food Go hot out at the ranch. You know I can't stand people like that man. They're depressing. They could light up this room by leaving. You know my friend Dr Jarvis. He says they got mental PO. It's like they've been weaned on a pickle or something. Drink milk out of a churn. I mean, they're just depressing. All the time this black cloud follows them around. We don't have to be like that. You know that reminds me of those.

Speaker 1:

You know those 10 spies that came back from the Promised Land said oh, it's too hard, the giants are too big, there's no way we could buy. They depressed the people. The Bible says that an entire generation had to die in the wilderness because of the bad report from those 10. Let's be like the other two spies. Remember who the other two were Joshua and Calib. Joshua and Calib saw the same challenges, the same giants, all the same stuff. They came back and they said, yep, it's going to be hard. Oh yeah, giants, huge giants. It's going to be tough. We're going to have to take the land a little bit at a time. But they said God's giving us the land, let's go take it. These guys gave us a great system of freedom, a system that works. Let's go out there and work the system. Let's be optimistic. Let's be joyful in what we do. We don't have to be angry. We can be excited about having freedom and just get out there and participate in it.

Speaker 1:

Also, the amendments. You can find one of those amendments. Make it your pet peeve project and help them make it happen. Watch out for those treaties. We talked about the danger of the treaties. Make sure you're on them. Burn it up the phones, call the senators if it's a bad one and then live the Bill of Rights.

Speaker 1:

You go live out these freedoms. What good are they? Just those words on paper. You got to live them. So, when it comes to that freedom of religion, get out there and live out your faith.

Speaker 1:

When it comes to that freedom of speech, speak the truth with boldness, don't be afraid to speak out. That freedom of the press man, you be the press. You can start your own blog, your own newspaper, all those things you can do that. And people on Facebook, all those things. We have tools that just I mean, boggle the mind. You can reach more people in an instant than the founding fathers could do in weeks. Think about their committees of correspondence. I mean, how long you got to wait for the Sons of Liberty to send one letter from Boston, let's say, down to somewhere in Virginia, and now the letter's going to get back. And I mean we can send a tweet and thousands of people get that committee of correspondence. We need to be the new committees of correspondence. We need to get out there and be active that way. Assemble every chance you get, just like we did here, just like you can do back home in your community and petition so that your voice is heard.

Speaker 2:

Hey guys, we're the Green Family. We're here in Philadelphia at Independence Hall. This is the very room, the authentic room, where the Constitution was signed and ratified. This is where the founding fathers duked it out and created that incredible document, and we just want to tell you, guys that you have got to come here and experience just the awe of this room, the power and the, just the history that emanates in this room. It's really truly incredible.

Speaker 3:

Well, thanks for sure. When you sit in this room, it is genuinely like just awe-struck. Everything is just different, because when you're actually standing here, you could feel the presence. You can touch the walls. You can't go past the railing, but you could just really feel the amazing presence in this room.

Speaker 1:

I would tell mom when we were walking up here tonight. You know as many times as we've been here. I still get chills Every time. This really is my favorite room in all of history, yeah absolutely.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, we came here when we were kids and we would recite words from the Declaration and the Constitution and we thought we maybe knew what we were talking about, but we really were just reciting it. And now that we're older, we truly understand at least we're partly understanding. We're learning more and more every day, but we now understand what we were talking about and so it's really cool to come back here and think we were here at one point and didn't fully understand it, and now we actually have a grasp.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we're all on that journey. I mean we're all citizens working hard to create a more perfect union, as they said in the preamble to the Constitution, and we want to encourage you. Get your family and come to Philadelphia. Come visit Independence Hall. It is absolutely amazing. You walk in here. The Rangers are incredible to tell you all kinds of great stories about the founding of our country. You get to see the Liberty Bell. It's a great experience.

Speaker 1:

If you don't get a chance to come physically, come yourself watch Chasing American Legends or our Constitution class, we try to let you live it through our eyes. If you don't get the chance to travel out here, but we really do encourage you to come. There's something about walking in the footsteps of the founding fathers. Either way, we sure hope that you will accept the torch of freedom and that you will become a citizen that wants to preserve this nation and pass the torch of freedom to the next generation. Welcome back to Constitutional Live with David Barton and Rick Green. It's time to talk about how do you actually change the Constitution, david? Is there a proper time to amend the Constitution? Obviously so. We've done it 27 times.

Speaker 5:

Well, the cool thing about Article 5 is this is the way to evolve the Constitution. You know the progressive folks say, oh, it needs to be a living, breathing, evolving document. I agree as long as the people are doing it, not as some unelected judge or someone else or the president by him or herself I mean it's and the people doing it. It's with the people and the amendment process the way it's required. It's a high enough bar. That has to be the people really behind it. It can't just be an interest group over here. You get people straight up for a while. This is really a pretty cool book that it lists and covers all the constitutional amendments that have been proposed to the Constitution and it goes from 1789 all the way up until this book is 1995. So you said proposed.

Speaker 1:

So in other words, this is these are all the amendments that any member of Congress or a state has said Anybody of state, that's right.

Speaker 5:

These are the ones that have officially been entered into Congress to look at action. So they've been written up, they've been drafted, they've been introduced. They had some action and either the people weren't enough behind it or whatever else. You know how many have been proposed in that period of time. We're talking 206 years there. I would say a bunch. I would think a lot. In that period of time. 10,900 amendments Well, that's more than I want to thought. I would have been thinking hundreds 10,900.

Speaker 5:

But it's been thousands, so 10,900, and how many of them have actually been added to the Constitution? 27. Which meant those are 27 that people wanted added, and so when they get added, the people get behind them, because it has the support of the people. Well, you said the bar's high.

Speaker 1:

We wanted to be high. We wanted to be high.

Speaker 5:

We wanted to be a vast majority of people See the founding fathers of the Constitutional Convention talked about. If you let judges make policy and they start striking down stuff or implementing stuff, that people will lose respect for their government. And if you get a Supreme Court saying here's national policy and it dumps what 25 or 30 states have passed by their law, they've lost respect for it. When it comes from the people and the Constitution, article 5 sits the bar high enough that for the people to make the change you've got support. Then they respect it. And so Article 5 of the Constitution is really the answer to what they tell our kids today in schools and universities, what we hear from media pundits and law professors. Well, we need a Constitution that keeps up the needs of the day. Great, we, the people, know what our needs are. We'll tell you what our needs are. Don't you tell us what our needs are? And so this really is we, the people.

Speaker 5:

And this is a fun book just to see all the things that have been proposed, and some of them are really hot. At the time you would thought they might have passed because but this is the other thing about our Constitution it requires your feelings to slow down over time and you can't just do it merely on passion. That's a democracy that runs on passion. A republic has to run on a reason, and so by the time you have debates, by the time you get the states involved, by the time it goes through, sometimes you say you know, this is not the big issue. It was a year and a half ago and I don't think I supported it anymore because all the passion was there for it.

Speaker 1:

So it really is a fun book to look at that means there was a lot of wisdom that went into designing even this one article in the Constitution and they really made sure. If you're going to change this, that's fine. If time's changing, you need to make an amendment to Constitution, but we got the high bar. It's going to take time and they really thought through this and that's why it's been so rare that it got amended. But there might be some amendments that we need to consider going into the future and that'll be up to we, the people.

Speaker 5:

And if there are some things we feel passionate about and right now people do feel passionate about the government being a threat to their liberties I mean, the national polling is overwhelming that the greatest danger they see to the liberties is the government and now maybe it's time to restrain some of those things that threw things like the misinterpretation of the general welfare clause and necessary and proper and all that. Maybe we say no, guys, you should have been reading the original books at the beginning. We, the people, still support the original belief. Let's squeeze it back.

Speaker 1:

Well, that then is not really a change. That's reasserting or clarifying what the original intent was. We're not changing how the system would work In those cases. We're just, we're really clarifying and restoring what was intended.

Speaker 5:

I've been part of several attempted constitutional amendments in Congress and you really got to have this. It can't be a red amendment or a blue amendment. You're going to have to have red and blue that come together and say this isn't the change we want for the country. And that makes it much safer, because when it's just red or blue, the other fellowys, they got to retaliate. You know you did this to me, so I'm going to cram this down in your throat Now. The founding fathers are very wise in putting this together in such a way that once it gets done, it's because the people themselves supported it.

Speaker 1:

Alright we're gonna go back to Philly and we're gonna learn how to amend the Constitution, the specifics of how the process takes place. We'll even talk about some of those possible amendments going into the future. Let's head back to Independence Hall, alright, mark. So we were just talking about Article 5 and why the Founders said, hey, we may need to amend this thing. This thing is not perfect from the very beginning, but there's two ways to amend in Article 5. So why the second way? The first way Congress does it. The Constitution creates this federal government has an amendment process that the federal government does first and then it goes back to the states. But then something happened right at the end of the convention. Yeah, I think this is just an incredible story.

Speaker 6:

I'm so excited to tell this story here. So it's two days before the end of convention, september 15th 1787. They're all lost, done.

Speaker 1:

Well, now wait, that's also an important day in your family right.

Speaker 6:

Well, you know it is the most important day in American history. That's my wife Patty's birthday. So we can't. I had to get that in. I appreciate you remembering that. It's very good of you Got you some boys there, yeah. So Colonel George Mason stands up. Now imagine the setting right. We know the story of the windows are boarded up. It's a hot, humid summer. We've been in here for a long time. Mason said a lot right. He's spoken, I think more than anybody else that convinced. They're probably tired Almost.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, goober and Morse, I think was most, but Mason, so right up there, so he. You think they're ready to go home.

Speaker 6:

Yeah exactly, they're all kind of packing up. He stands up and he says we have a problem with the Constitution as we've drafted it. We gave the power to the Congress, to the federal government, to propose amendments if they deemed them necessary, but we didn't give the same power to the people acting through the states. And then he asked what I think is a really important question. He says are we so naive that we believe that a federal government that becomes a tyranny will ever propose amendments to restrain its own tyranny? Kind of an obvious question right Now.

Speaker 1:

Wait, let me put that in. I'm a country boy. What he's basically saying is if you take power, you're not likely to give it back, right? If somebody just takes power that they weren't given, you really think they're going to just give it up on their own.

Speaker 6:

No, I don't think we have any examples of this in all of human history, right? You imagine the tyrant saying I think I have too much power, right? So let me just give some back to the people, right? And I wish we had video, like we have today, because I imagine they all laugh Like that's so ridiculous. Of course they would never give up their own power, and we kind of know they did laugh, because Madison's notes at that point say nincom, a Latin abbreviation for no comment. In other words, now one of these guys objected, mason's right over there I mean, we can look at his table, virginia, sitting right over there.

Speaker 6:

He makes this statement and nobody comments on it, which is just incredible. Wait, are you saying this was like a mic drop moment? That's a good way to put it. He makes this comment drop like they argued about everything, so they didn't argue about this and they take a vote. It's actually Eldridge. Geary proposes this second way to amend the Constitution a state amending convention way of amending the Constitution. They take a vote unanimous, so no debate and it gets in the Constitution unanimously. To give you and me the right, acting through our state legislatures, to call a convention of states to propose a motion.

Speaker 1:

So this motion was really saying okay, well, if Mason's right, If the federal government gets outside of its boundaries, we don't want to leave it up to the feds to put them back in. The motion is basically saying we're going to create an outside mechanism that has nothing to do with those guys that did this. The outside mechanism can put you back in the box. So both steps it's the states that start it and it's the states that approve it. Okay, friends, very quick break, We'll be right back. You're listening to Wabubbers.

Speaker 7:

Hey guys, it's Sim Barton and I want to tell you about our new book, the American Story Building the Republic. We start with George Washington as president and we've already become a nation. So really now it's how do we function as a nation? And if we look back in American history, the stability, the prosperity, success we enjoyed as Americans is because of the foundation that our early president slayed, because the examples they set. How do we live in America under the Constitution? What is the role of federal government? And really what part did each one of these early presidents play? We go to the first seven presidents and a lot of people probably know the names Washington, adams, jefferson and Madison. Very few people know about Monroe or John Quincy Adams or Andrew Jackson. Now, we might know some of their names, we really don't know their stories. We want you to relearn, rediscover American history and see how it applies to today. Go to Walbludderscom and get your copy of the American Story Building the Republic.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for staying with us here on Walbludders. We're going to jump right back into our biblical citizenship in modern America.

Speaker 6:

I think this is incredible. You know, you've talked to a lot of state legislators. You've been a state legislator. I travel all around the country and one of the things I always ask state legislators is do you know that you are the most Powerful person in the federal government? Wow, I usually get a blank stare, right, right, I'm a state legislator, right, and I say, look, I understand, when they brought you in and they gave you your orientation, they didn't tell you about this, but you're the only person in the federal government with the power to Call a convention, propose amendments and ratify those amendments and change the very structure of our federal government.

Speaker 6:

Now, I think it's an incredible power that most state legislators don't know that no, there's definitely no orientation on that.

Speaker 1:

Without a doubt, most state legislators don't know it and Unfortunately, some of them are afraid, even when they find out about it, to use it. But in fact, they should embrace that and say this was a check in balance that the founding fathers gave us that hasn't been used and Needs to be used. Whether you talk about some of the issues that are happening today, or you just talk about the nature of man and the fact that this is a mechanism, you want the federal government to almost be afraid of states using this. In the same way that branches have to push back against each Other, these guys called it constitutional arms for being able to push back against each other. The states have constitutional arms, and this is the main one it really isn't.

Speaker 6:

It's really important and it's really important right now that we take this. It's our power. It's actually the people's power you know, you think about. They gave this power to the state legislators. Why, state legislators? You know what? Why didn't they imbue the president with this power? They did give it to Congress. Why didn't they give it to the courts? Why, state legislators? I mean, you've been a state legislators. I'll let throw that question here. Why state legislators? You?

Speaker 1:

know, with knowing a lot of the state legislators that I know, sometimes that question there wisdom in no, no.

Speaker 1:

I think it was wise, though, because we're closer.

Speaker 1:

You know state rep is a fairly easy person to get a meeting with right you can hold a state legislator accountable much faster Than you can hold a congressman or the president or a Supreme Court justice accountable, so that had to be part of what they were thinking is this is closer to the people and it's from the outside of the federal government.

Speaker 1:

But also a lot of these guys had been state legislators. They knew what it was like to serve in that state assembly or state legislature, so maybe that had a lot to do with it as well. Now I do think it was wise to do it. I know a lot of people, when they think about article 5 and they think about legislators you know be doing a stake, doing a convention of states and doing amendments they think, well, I don't know if I trust these politicians in my state or in my capital or whatever, but that's the whole idea behind the system is that you would rather have someone that you can hold accountable Closely, someone in your state, than someone that's far away, yeah, and I think it's actually fair not to trust them.

Speaker 6:

But the founders built a system that gets our trust. It's not the people like. The founders were smart, they understood human nature. They didn't trust people, right? They know we're sinful creatures, were flawed inherently the way we're created. So they built a system that created balance. So even article 5 within itself has a system built in to this. It, in other words, there are checks and balances throughout the article 5 process of when you initiate the process, it takes two-thirds of states. That's a really high bar. It's hard to get two-thirds of states to agree. So just to get into convention is really difficult. You get in convention and then you got a debate, just like these guys did. Right, right, right, it's like the convention.

Speaker 1:

I gotta tell people, you know, one of the things that happened since we started filming here all those years ago in the Most of the class that you've watched at this point. Between that time and right now, as we sit here, mark and I got to do a simulation of what a convention of states would be like and colonial Williamsburg another great place to visit. You ought to go visit colonial Williamsburg and that was really neat to see it actually play out, because even when I stood here and taught the class, I was just envisioning in my mind, trying to create this in my mind, because it's never happened, right, that simulation. We really got to see serious legislators from all the states across the country debate the major, you know, structural issues of the day. It was really cool to see. Hey, the founders knew what they were talking about when they put this together.

Speaker 6:

Yeah, you know, to me what was most interesting about being in Williamsburg and and you can watch this stuff online, I know a lot of you guys have watched this is I saw what I would describe as good people become great Rise to the occasion, regular legislators become statesmen and women. They were so serious about it. One of the comments that I had really often in the halls around that convention people were saying I have to keep reminding myself this isn't the real deal, valhalla right, and so they were so serious about it and that gave me a lot of hope. You know, as I thought, if they're taking it this seriously for a simulation, imagine what the real did, right?

Speaker 1:

and one of the coolest things is that a real deal would also be covered by the news, so every American would be learning about the Constitution as the article 5 was actually lived out. That's one of the great things I think would happen with an article 5 convention of states. Now listen, I know this course, every week of this course is kind of that 30,000 feet view. We talk about it being the quick start guide, and so we're not gonna get too far into the weeds on this, but we want you to study more all of the articles, all of the roles that we play as citizens, and specifically this one, article 5. You can go to convention of states. Calm has a lot of great information to dive further into how this would work, concerns people have with it, what habit we use it. I do want to actually ask you that. I mean, here we have this incredible tool, you. I can't think of another area of the Constitution that has sat dormant like that and not been used. Why do you think?

Speaker 6:

that is. It's hard and the Founders intended it to be hard. And I think this is something people sometimes. They're frustrated. I've been doing this seven years pursuing Article 5. I get frustrated sometimes. You know it's my life's work right now. And so people ask why aren't you frustrated? It's taken seven years and I have to remind myself and I always say well, this is exactly how the Founders intended it to be. They didn't want us to be able to amend the Constitution easily, right? They didn't want people just on a whim Society changes one year, one decade, you change it they wanted the entire country to have to get together, get a very large majority just to get into convention Right, and then a three-quarters majority to ratify anything. They wanted this to be a difficult consensus building process. That's a good reason.

Speaker 1:

All right. Well, there's a lot more to learn about Article 5 and every other article and amendment in the Constitution, so let's dive back in to Constitutional Eye. So this is an idea that the Founders gave us. I mean, they clearly thought this would be a good thing to do when it was necessary, and but some people have questions about how it would work if we had a convention.

Speaker 5:

Well, even beyond that, some people don't even get to the questions. No, this is a terrible thing, and so it's a popular collective type of language. Man, if we have this, they will take over the convention. We got all these guys out there who ate the Constitutional. They'll take it over, they'll abolish the Constitution. Wait a minute. The Founders raised the bar so high.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So even I was thinking, even what I said in Philadelphia 13 states kills a bad amendment. Well, like you're saying, actually it's less than that, it's half of those 13 states. So it's just one legislative body out of each of those 13 states. And I have to admit I used to be on a little bit of the fair side. I was like man, I'm kind of worried about letting a bunch of people get together and possibly change the cost. It's not just those people in that convention that are quote changing in many of the Constitution, it's all of us. It's got to come back to us and get our approval.

Speaker 5:

Well, you know, one of the things that got my thinking because I was in the same way I'd listen to all the apocalyptic type of language and I don't want to lose the Constitution. You know, I mean number one. We've already lost it. We're not using it now.

Speaker 1:

That's true, that's exactly right.

Speaker 5:

What if we lose it? And that's assuming that the worst, If we keep going the way we're going, we're going to lose it. We're going to lose it. So we've got to do something. And you know, these are all the mites, you know. And we are in Texas and we might have a blizzard on the 4th of July Right, I like it and we might have a meteor come through and hit us while we're sitting here and we might have a lot. The one thing that got me was it does not endanger the Constitution to use the Constitution. You know oh, I so appreciate the right to trial by jury in the 7th Amendment that I've got a trial coming. I'm not going to use the trial by jury because I think it's too invaluable to use it.

Speaker 1:

That's a great point, David.

Speaker 5:

You know I support free speech but I'm not going to use it because I might endanger the first amendment free. It's so precious. I can't and I'm a big defender of the 2nd Amendment, but I'm not going to use it.

Speaker 1:

How can it destroy the Constitution to use the Constitution? To use the Constitution.

Speaker 5:

That's a great religion and that tool. If they said there's two ways you're going to mend it, you can do it through Congress, where we've done it so many times, or if the states get ticked off at the federal government and they want to say, guys, we're pushing back, if we're going to use this 10th Amendment approach as applied by the Article 5 of the Constitution, it can't hurt the Constitution. To uphold the Constitution by using the Constitution. That's right. And if I take an oath to uphold the Constitution, it also includes Article 5, which includes a convention of states. I can't say I'm taking an oath to uphold the Constitution, except Article 5. I like the part about amendments through Congress. I don't like the part about convention. I can't do it.

Speaker 1:

And I remember in an earlier section you were talking about the fact that not only do we have that horizontal separation of powers, those checks and balances, but that vertical one as well. Isn't this a way for the states to actually push back against the encroachment from the feds? Isn't this?

Speaker 5:

the proper way to do it. Remember the Federalist Papers talked about that. Every one of those bodies had constitutional arms of self-defense States. They had senators appointed first off. We lost that through the 7th Amendment, but they have the 10th Amendment to defend them and they also have a convention of states Article 5, to defend them. Those are all tools that were given them by the founding fathers so the states could push back against federal overreach. So those are all potential uses and, quite frankly, the debate will go on and it's going on for a long time.

Speaker 5:

It went on back then. That's why they included that. It was not a novel idea that they just came up without a thin air. It's because there were discussions already going on this topic back then and so it's just new in our generation. It's being resurrected in our generation. Some did this by calling for a balanced budget amendment back a couple of decades ago and there's still some calls for that, and that's fine. Whatever it is, we're having to look at the Constitution afresh and anew. But my position is you do not endanger the Constitution by using the Constitution.

Speaker 1:

And you said also before we went to Philadelphia this idea of, because it's drawn out and there's a lot of debate and a lot of logic and a lot of reason. I mean that's a good thing If you think about it. This would cause it to be in the news. Everybody would be learning about the Constitution. Each state is going to be debating this in their state legislatures. I can't see how that's bad. That's good for us to get more educated about the Constitution.

Speaker 5:

On the side that we might wipe out the government and wait a minute. This is going to take a process of years to get done and by the time we have debates in the legislatures of all 50 states and by the time you have a House and Senate debate and by the time you see if you can get 38 states to come together on this, this is going to be thoroughly vetted through the people. We will have had discussions extensively on this and, by the way, the notion of being able to wipe out the Constitution at such a convention and it doesn't exist that's a totally false premise. Remember, the current polling is right now. Nearly three quarters of the nation respects the Constitution. They don't think it's a mean news, right, but they respect it. So they're not going to be willing to wipe this thing out. Well and specifically, to that.

Speaker 1:

I've heard people say well, what if they, if you had a convention of states and they do the same thing that they did in the first runaway convention? That's not possible because again, it's still whatever they do has to come back to the state, it's got to come back to us and you've got to have 38s of fruit.

Speaker 5:

So, and it's interesting, article 5 actually limits that by saying amendments to this Constitution. That's right. It doesn't say you come out with a new Constitution. It says, well, the original Constitutional Convention. They just met there to revise the article's confederation. They came up with a whole new document. No, because had that violated what the state sent them there for the states would not have ratified it.

Speaker 1:

OK, folks, out of time for today. This was Part 2 in a four-part series this week where we are covering biblical citizenship in modern America. Be sure and tune in. Tomorrow We'll pick up right where we left off today and you can get the whole course, by the way, at biblicalcitizenscom. Biblicalcitizenscom. Thanks so much for listening to Wallbubbers MUSIC.

Biblical Citizenship and American Freedom
The Amendment Process
The Power of State Legislators
The Founders' Intention for Constitutional Amendment